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Author Topic:   Can ToE explain human Brain development?
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 1 of 47 (529677)
10-10-2009 4:25 AM


{Content hidden - See message 3 as the topic starter message - Adminnemooseus}
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above.

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 3 of 47 (529682)
10-10-2009 4:44 AM


Re: Too many topics
this is a spin off from my last 'Reasons for Doubt' thread
Now i want to pose a questions that, theoretically, the ToE should be able to answer. I dont really have a premis for this discussion except to say that denying the existence of a Creator does not still man’s quest for a meaning to life. If we are simply animals along a long evolutionary chain, we are no different to them and should not exhibit the traits we do.
And to start it off, in The Brain Book, Peter Russell writes: The more that is learned about the human brain, the more its capacities and potentials are found to go far beyond earlier speculations.
In regard to memory, for instance, our brain has an enormous capacity. They have discoved that Memory is not like a container that gradually fills up, it's more like a tree growing hooks onto which the memories are hung. Everything you remember is another set of hooks on which more new memories can be attached. So the capacity of memory keeps on growing. The more you know, the more you can know.
This brings us back to my earlier question, Why does the human brain have such a vast intellect? What purpose does it serve in evolutionary terms.
As a believer in creation, i believe that it was designed to last and learn forever as God intended...how does ToE explain it?
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-10-2009 6:28 AM Peg has replied
 Message 9 by Izanagi, posted 10-10-2009 6:57 AM Peg has replied
 Message 10 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-10-2009 7:06 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 11 by Larni, posted 10-10-2009 7:55 AM Peg has replied
 Message 24 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 10-10-2009 9:29 PM Peg has replied
 Message 38 by Lithodid-Man, posted 10-12-2009 3:59 PM Peg has not replied
 Message 40 by websnarf, posted 01-21-2010 1:18 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 42 by rockondon, posted 04-06-2010 1:11 PM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


(1)
Message 12 of 47 (529719)
10-10-2009 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Izanagi
10-10-2009 6:57 AM


Re: Human Brain development
Izanaqi writes:
keep in mind that it's only been recently that the technology has advanced far enough for researchers to really begin to understand the brain. As we learn more about the brain and its functions, more answers will be forthcoming.
thats very true...it seems though that as they learn more about the brain, they are beginning ot realise just how complex an organ it really is.
thats an interesting article especially the point in paragraph 11
"The scientists found that the human brain's genes had gone through an intense amount of evolution in a short amount of time - a process that far outstripped the evolution of the genes of other animals."
this in itself is completely contrary to how evolution predicts changes isnt it?
I dont know if its reasonable to put it down simply to our social connections though. I mean lets face it, there are many animals that live in family groups...look at the herds of africa for example. Buffalo and deer live in herds that can run into many thousands.
Izanaqi writes:
chimps do possess similar abilities that once were only accorded to humans and that is not surprising considering the two chimp species are the closest living relative to Homo Sapiens.
its true that other animals have some intelligence, but unlike animals, we have the free will to program our intellects as we choose, based on our own knowledge, values, opportunities and goals. They seem to be confined in their ability to learn new things...and mostly it seems they are programmed for life. I would like to see some research articles on that one if you know any.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Izanagi, posted 10-10-2009 6:57 AM Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by NosyNed, posted 10-10-2009 8:23 AM Peg has replied
 Message 17 by Izanagi, posted 10-10-2009 9:06 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


(1)
Message 13 of 47 (529720)
10-10-2009 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Minnemooseus
10-10-2009 6:28 AM


Re: Building a computer that works like a brain
i'll tell you one thing that a computer will never be able to do that our brain apparently can do
increase its memory!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-10-2009 6:28 AM Minnemooseus has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


(1)
Message 15 of 47 (529722)
10-10-2009 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Larni
10-10-2009 7:55 AM


Re: Too many topics
Larni writes:
Can you see where I'm going with this? The fact that humans have abilities at a different level to other animals (for better or worse, remember) is no challenge to ToE.
I understand that and i understand that all animals have their own unique abilities
but it seems we have developed a brain with a capacity that is far greater then our needs. So in terms of evolution, why did it develop greater capabilities then we actually need to survive?
Larni writes:
Ever worried? Ask your self what worry is; it's a negative prediction about the future. Our brains are wired to work this way because if we are worrying about lions in the long grass we will avoid the long grass and stay alive long enough to breed.
all animals worry this is true
Do we worry more then other animals? Or do they worry more then us?
Larni writes:
If we can predict a negative situation and avoid it we improve our chances of survival.
this one im not so sure about for the reason that humans have a tendency to do things that they know are dangerous. There are many example of this...experimenting with drugs, jumping off cliffs/aeroplanes, smoking, jumping into a strangers car, committing suicide, criminal behavior, drink driving, speeding....there are so many thing humans do that are contrary to survival it doesnt make sense.
Animals are very careful and they live (except for dogs chasing cars maybe) but generally speaking, animals work to keep themselves safe...humans on the other hand seem to do the opposite.
how does dangerous behavior fit into the ToE?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Larni, posted 10-10-2009 7:55 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by subbie, posted 10-10-2009 10:05 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 21 by Larni, posted 10-10-2009 11:21 AM Peg has replied
 Message 29 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-11-2009 12:35 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 37 by Perdition, posted 10-12-2009 12:00 PM Peg has not replied
 Message 41 by jimgerard, posted 03-10-2010 10:33 AM Peg has not replied
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Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 16 of 47 (529723)
10-10-2009 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by NosyNed
10-10-2009 8:23 AM


Re: Speedy Brain
NosyNed writes:
And, just to be nosy, how long do you think they say the "short amount" of time is?
"To accomplish so much in so little evolutionary time - a few tens of millions of years - requires a selective process that is perhaps categorically different from the typical processes of acquiring new biological traits."
this point really makes me wonder how it is all other animals apparently evolved over billions of years, yet humans in only a few tens of millions of years got a brain that is far superior to other species.
why should it be that way...its still contrary to the ToE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by NosyNed, posted 10-10-2009 8:23 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by NosyNed, posted 10-10-2009 9:25 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 34 by Otto Tellick, posted 10-11-2009 1:10 PM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 22 of 47 (529865)
10-10-2009 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Larni
10-10-2009 11:21 AM


More Brain power then is necessary
Larni writes:
What makes you think that this is true? By this logic the Mink is too successful as well because it 'too good' for it's environment (when it was accidently introduced into the UK by do gooders).
I say that becuase of what researchers have discovered about human memory. The memory has been found to have the ability to grow rather then get 'filled'
They have found that its a function that is limitless. Why would we need a limitless memory when we only live for up to 100 years?
If we lived for thousands of years then i could understand it, but our life cycle is very short...even turtles live for longer then we do so why do we have a memory with an endless capability?
Larni writes:
You've been told before evolution has no 'aim'. Once a trait is selected for it will keep being selected until it is no longer of benefit for the organism in question.
an endless memory is no benefit to us because we will only ever use a fraction of it ... so why keep selecting something that we will never use. Life is very short remember. Memory is endless apparently.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Larni, posted 10-10-2009 11:21 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by onifre, posted 10-10-2009 9:26 PM Peg has replied
 Message 25 by NosyNed, posted 10-10-2009 9:50 PM Peg has not replied
 Message 30 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-11-2009 12:40 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 32 by Larni, posted 10-11-2009 9:17 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 33 by Dr Jack, posted 10-11-2009 9:38 AM Peg has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 26 of 47 (529886)
10-10-2009 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by onifre
10-10-2009 9:26 PM


Re: More Brain power then is necessary
onifire writes:
And do you have a source where you read that the "memory is limitless in it's growing capacity?"
The knowledge of the brains capacity has been around for more then just a few years. The 1976 Encyclopaedia Britannica states that man’s brain is endowed with considerably more potential than is realizable in the course of one person’s lifetime. Macropaedia Vol 12 page 998.
The Brain Book by Peter Russell states how the memory structure works and explaines that it is like a tree with endless growth potential.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by onifre, posted 10-10-2009 9:26 PM onifre has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 27 of 47 (529887)
10-10-2009 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by AnswersInGenitals
10-10-2009 9:29 PM


Re: Associative Memory
AnswersinGenitals writes:
This is how google does searches. The 'capacity of memory' does not keep growing - it is limited by the physical extent of the memory mechanism, ram or hard drive for computers, neurons and synapses for brains. Why in the world would you think that this mechanism is limited to human brains? Every animal from ants to elephants probably makes use of this mechanism.
i didnt say this mechanism is limited to humans. I said the mechanism is 'limitless' in humans.
computers are modelled after brains but a computer is not dynamic, it cannot think for itself...it is 'programed to think'...our brains are not. They get programmed by whatever we choose to put into them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 10-10-2009 9:29 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Izanagi, posted 10-11-2009 1:02 AM Peg has not replied

  
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