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Author Topic:   'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 1 of 479 (530150)
10-12-2009 1:29 PM


In Matthew 16:27-28, Jesus says (ESV) :-
quote:
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
If the bible is inerrant, then Jesus said this. Not only that, but if Jesus said this, it must be true, by the divine nature of Jesus.
This is impossible to reconcile with reality. If taken literally, the implication is that some of Jesus' audience are still alive today OR that Jesus has already come again, neither of which are true.
This is a challenge to a literal interpretation of the bible. How do those who believe the bible is inerrant respond to this?
Edited by Peepul, : No reason given.
Edited by Peepul, : to improve opening post

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Larni, posted 10-13-2009 9:52 AM Peepul has replied
 Message 6 by Calypsis4, posted 10-13-2009 9:55 AM Peepul has replied
 Message 19 by ICANT, posted 10-14-2009 3:44 AM Peepul has replied
 Message 34 by FullCircle, posted 11-27-2009 1:51 AM Peepul has not replied
 Message 36 by jaywill, posted 11-28-2009 4:20 PM Peepul has not replied
 Message 56 by Statman, posted 12-06-2009 1:53 AM Peepul has not replied
 Message 110 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-11-2010 3:22 PM Peepul has not replied
 Message 123 by DPowell, posted 04-27-2010 8:44 PM Peepul has not replied
 Message 130 by BKE, posted 05-02-2010 1:34 AM Peepul has not replied
 Message 256 by glowby, posted 05-31-2010 9:32 PM Peepul has not replied
 Message 286 by Hawkins, posted 06-04-2010 6:07 AM Peepul has not replied

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 3 of 479 (530378)
10-13-2009 8:38 AM


amended - please review and let me have your feedback

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 10 of 479 (530418)
10-13-2009 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Larni
10-13-2009 9:52 AM


quote:
How do you know that some of the 'some of you standing here' that Jesus was talking to are not dead?
Well they haven't sold their story to Hello - that's pretty good evidence.
Edited by Peepul, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Larni, posted 10-13-2009 9:52 AM Larni has not replied

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 12 of 479 (530422)
10-13-2009 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Calypsis4
10-13-2009 9:55 AM


quote:
It was fulfilled, in part, in the experience of the apostle John who saw the kingdom come in Revelation. Some of the other disciples got a glimpse of it also. Check out Pauls words in II Corinthians 12:2. The 'man in Christ above 14 years ago' was actually himself. But even if one doesn't take that as Paul himself, whoever it was saw the kingdom.
Thanks Calypsis. I've read that passage and found it interesting.
It seems to me that John and Paul (or someone else) had a 'preview' of the kingdom, but that Jesus is talking about the arrival of the kingdom in real time, on earth, for everbody.
This is clear from the linking of the two sentences in the quote I gave above.
The first sentence is about the real arrival of the kingdom
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
For your interpretation to be true, the second sentence must then not be referring to this real arrival, but to the 'previews'.
Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
But read the two together and it's clear that they are linked.
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Calypsis4, posted 10-13-2009 9:55 AM Calypsis4 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Calypsis4, posted 10-13-2009 1:18 PM Peepul has not replied
 Message 35 by Peg, posted 11-27-2009 4:20 AM Peepul has not replied

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 26 of 479 (530599)
10-14-2009 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by ICANT
10-14-2009 3:44 AM


Re: Kingdom
Thanks ICANT for your very interesting reply. You're right, i am not a biblical scholar in any sense.
However, I take issue with one part of your reply, an important one
quote:
When did this take place? Within a couple of weeks of the announcment.
That doesn't make sense if we consider Jesus' words.
quote:
There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Why would Jesus say that if the fulfilment was going to be within a couple of weeks?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ICANT, posted 10-14-2009 3:44 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by ICANT, posted 10-14-2009 11:35 AM Peepul has not replied

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 127 of 479 (558177)
04-30-2010 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by gragbarder
03-21-2010 10:39 AM


quote:
[Jesus said,] For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.
(Matthew 24:27, 30-34)
Gragbarder, you are quite right to quote this. It reinforces the sense of my original quote. It is actually more explicit than my original quote!
Later on there is also this in Matthew :-
quote:
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
But nothing has happened for 2000 years. Generations of people have been told to keep watch but Christ has not appeared. Generations of people have been misled into thinking Christ could come in their time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by gragbarder, posted 03-21-2010 10:39 AM gragbarder has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by gragbarder, posted 05-01-2010 2:00 AM Peepul has not replied

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


(1)
Message 132 of 479 (558882)
05-05-2010 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by DPowell
05-05-2010 10:25 AM


Re: Sure not the Transfiguration
quote:
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, , and the heavenly bodies will be shaken"
First of all, the vv. 28-29 absolutely are talking about the crucifixion, which you left out, and they absolutely did happen.
Hi DPowell,
you can't possibly be correct. The stars have not fallen from the sky, nor have the heavenly bodies been 'shaken'. These things absolutely did not happen.
it's also not right to separate the timing of v28-29 from v 30-33. You can see that because verse 30 starts 'at that time' - this is clearly happening at the same time as v28-29.
Are you saying that we should interpret 'coming' as 'going'? If so, doesn't that undermine the whole concept of the second coming?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by DPowell, posted 05-05-2010 10:25 AM DPowell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by DPowell, posted 05-05-2010 2:09 PM Peepul has not replied

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 337 of 479 (563945)
06-07-2010 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by jaywill
06-07-2010 10:39 AM


Re: Moaral generation vs Chronological generation
[quote]Your tag team partner says 90 AD is a good year to stand for the termination of "this generation" in Matthew 24:34.[quote] Jaywill, whatever date any one comes up with for the chronological generation concept, is it possible to defend the view that 1st Century folk and those of us alive today are part of the same moral generation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 10:39 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Peepul
Member (Idle past 5045 days)
Posts: 206
Joined: 03-13-2009


Message 338 of 479 (563947)
06-07-2010 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by jaywill
06-07-2010 11:58 AM


Re: Moral generation vs Chronological generation
quote:
If "YOU" represents "this generation" in this sentence - "Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION" that proves that Jesus could use the phrase "THIS GENERATION" to indicate a moral solidarity with people that goes over chronological boundaries.
Man, that is so feeble.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 11:58 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by jaywill, posted 06-07-2010 1:07 PM Peepul has not replied

  
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