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Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Baby Denied Health Care Coverage For Being "Too Fat" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jazzns Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Actually - that was pretty much how modern insurance started And then we figured out an even better way! If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
Jazzns writes:
I didn't expect you to just come out and say it. You think healthcare is worthwhile for your kids, so you want to tax us for it. I suspect you also think feeding and clothing your children is worthwhile, so you seem to want to tax us for that as well. I suspect just about all you do of your own accord you consider worthwhile, so basically you are saying you consider it appropriate for public funds to be used for whatever you think should be done. Because if it is worthwhile to do, it is worthwhile to tax for it. You want to be a dictator.
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5244 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
So far I have heard a lot about why having healthcare for everyone is a great thing and something to be proud of, but nothing about why taxing people to pay for it is a good idea.
The reason is this:
quote:The government of the United States of America was founded by the people of the United States to promote the general welfare of the people of the United States. How can we say we are upholding the ideals of the Constitution when 40 million Americans are uninsured and at least 25 million Americans are underinsured? Is it promoting the general welfare when at least 20% of Americans are without adequate healthcare coverage? When will you say it is a good idea? When 30% are without adequate healthcare coverage? 40%? 50%? When does an American say a person's life is worth more than the price of a single latte? That's your reason and it's probably the best reason in the world. You do it simply because the life of every person is equally important and just as you expect your fellow citizens to help you out in your time of need, so should you help your fellow citizens out in their time of need. It is upon that principle, that social contract, from which the US was founded and exists to this day. Can you give me any reason more important than that for not allowing healthcare for those who need it to live? Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given. It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Phage0070 writes:
Phage, I can't remember the last time my house has gone on fire. Why do I have to pay taxes to cover for public fire departments? I can't remember the last time I was robbed. Why do I have to pay taxes to cover for the police departments?
I didn't expect you to just come out and say it. You think healthcare is worthwhile for your kids, so you want to tax us for it. I suspect you also think feeding and clothing your children is worthwhile, so you seem to want to tax us for that as well. I suspect just about all you do of your own accord you consider worthwhile, so basically you are saying you consider it appropriate for public funds to be used for whatever you think should be done. You want to be a dictator.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You are part of a dying and irrelevant minority in America. The "everyone for himself" crowd. You are pathetic and I feel sorry for someone who can care so little for his fellow human being. Its hardly dying in the slightest. Most of the people around me are in that crowd. So fuck them and fuck you too. I can take care of myself and my own, with pleasure. Nobody gives a fuck about me, they're all for themselves. Some of them even masquerade as if they are for others, like I suspect you are. I'd much rather just gladly take care of myself and my own, when everyone else is only for themselves anyways. Thanks but no thanks. Stay the fuck away from me.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
Izanagi writes:
There is always something more you can do to help people. You have to draw the line somewhere, or you will be devoting 100% of everyone's resources toward helping each other. The government of the United States of America was founded by the people of the United States to promote the general welfare of the people of the United States. You might be in support of that, but it tends to interfere with the whole "liberty" part.
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
As I said, there are certain aspects of healtcare that I think are appropriate for the government. To draw a parallel with your examples, it is extremely appropriate for the CDC to try to control potential outbreaks of diseases.
You will note that the fire department's help ends when the fire goes out; they don't help clean up or rebuild. That is what insurance is for.
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
I didn't expect you to just come out and say it. You think healthcare is worthwhile for your kids, so you want to tax us for it. No, health care is worthwhile for everybody.
I suspect you also think feeding and clothing your children is worthwhile, so you seem to want to tax us for that as well. Yes! As it turns out, society as a whole becomes improved for everyone when we take very good care of our children. It is in fact what separates modern nations from 3rd world nations.
I suspect just about all you do of your own accord you consider worthwhile, so basically you are saying you consider it appropriate for public funds to be used for whatever you think should be done. You have very amply demonstrated your inability to read in this thread so I don't know why I would try again but here it goes. It is not what I think, it is what the vast majority of me and my fellow citizen think. They just so happen to think that denying basic health care to 4 month old babies because their parents are poor is something that only a sick twisted psychopath would want to do. If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Its hardly dying in the slightest. Well pretty much the evidence shows you are wrong.
I can take care of myself and my own, with pleasure. Nobody gives a fuck about me, they're all for themselves. Some of them even masquerade as if they are for others, like I suspect you are. I'd much rather just gladly take care of myself and my own, when everyone else is only for themselves anyways. Thanks but no thanks. Stay the fuck away from me. I could care less if you throw your lot in with the idiot selfish minority. Thanks for expressing your opinion. You have added nothing to the discussion. If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson
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Izanagi Member (Idle past 5244 days) Posts: 263 Joined: |
But no one is arguing for healthcare to be solely in the hands of the government. People need basic healthcare to ensure every American can stay healthy so we can reduce the number of people who use the emergency rooms as their primary source of healthcare and who go when their situation reaches a tipping point.
By keeping every American in good health through preventative healthcare, we lower the costs associated with emergency room care. And by providing life-saving healthcare for those who need it, we ensure that no American will have to go bankrupt in order to pay for healthcare. Think about that. The number 4 reason for bankruptcy are medical bills. If our healthcare system is so great, why are people going bankrupt to pay their bills? But perhaps there is no hope. When a Christian can argue against caring for others, I mourn for America. When Americans can allow their fellow citizens to sink into poverty, I mourn for America. When greed and wealth outweighs the life of a person, I mourn for America. Maybe you're right. Perhaps we should let greed tear our nation apart as it has torn apart other nations and allow the rich to get richer and the middle class and poor to get poorer. And we will allow it in the name of personal liberty. But remember, just as the extreme of control is tyranny, the extreme of personal liberty is anarchy. Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given. Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given. It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott ---------------------------------------- Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy ---------------------------------------- You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
I hope you know that you are my own person hero at this very moment.
The only thing I know how to do when confronted with blatant insanity is to ridicule. You are obviously a much better person than I sir. *hats off* If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Yay! Baby Alex now has health care!
UPDATE: Rocky Mountain Health Plans has now said it will cover Alex Lange, a baby they previously refused to give health insurance because of his weight. "A recent situation in which we denied coverage to a heavy, yet healthy, infant brought to ourattention a flaw in our underwriting system for approving infants," says Steve ErkenBrack, president and CEO, Rocky Mountain Health Plans. "Because we are a small company dedicated to the people of Colorado, we are pleased to be in a position to act quickly. We have changed our policy, corrected our underwriting guidelines and are working to notify the parents of the infant who we earlier denied." Read more at: Alex Lange Denied Health Care Coverage: "Your Baby Is Too Fat" | HuffPost Impact So apparently, all it takes when you get denied is to make a national scandal of the situation. Health care problem solved everyone. Lets all go home now and take a sign of relief. To be completely fair, the company seems like a pretty good shop. They are a state based non-profit. As much as I personally believe in single payer, I would not be opposed to a system like some countries have with private insurers that are forced to be non-profit for basic plans. They made a mistake and fixed it. Good for them. Now feel free to wildly speculate on what would have happened if you replace RMHP with UHC. *makes popcorn* If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson
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Phage0070 Inactive Member |
Izanagi writes:
That is what the opponents of the bill fear, and from looking at it they seem to have a point. The conditions other insurers and providers would have to operate under appear to be prohibitive, and impossible to compete under.
But no one is arguing for healthcare to be solely in the hands of the government. Izanagi writes:
Because medical bills are a large, unexpected expense that also often puts a person out of work? If they are close to bankruptcy then it seems a likely candidate. Are you saying we should have a safety net to prevent people going bankrupt? Oh wait... we already have one! BANKRUPTCY!
If our healthcare system is so great, why are people going bankrupt to pay their bills? Izanagi writes:
The rich get richer, and the poor get... richer slower. Perhaps we should let greed tear our nation apart as it has torn apart other nations and allow the rich to get richer and the middle class and poor to get poorer. Are we really getting to the root of the matter here? I think we are; you think "the rich" owes you. You are greedy, you are practically salivating at the possibility of getting your hands in the pockets of those more successful than you, whatever the reason. Kindness is helping your fellow man. Liberty makes it a choice.
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greyseal Member (Idle past 3889 days) Posts: 464 Joined: |
That is what the opponents of the bill fear, and from looking at it they seem to have a point. The conditions other insurers and providers would have to operate under appear to be prohibitive, and impossible to compete under. Oh heaven forbid that the companies that provide healthcare should focus on actually providing healthcare rather than the almighty dollar. Down with socialist schemes! Down with public roads! Down with public schools! Down with public fire departments! fascist socialist pigs, the lot of them! Down with lighthouses! Down with national parks! How dare the government protect the coastline! Down with the police! Who needs them! What a wonderful free world we would all live in then.
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Kitsune Member (Idle past 4328 days) Posts: 788 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
quote: Oh, I've got tears in my eyes. Izanagi for President!
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