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Author Topic:   What is a "kind"?
Modulous
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Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 3 of 42 (528304)
10-05-2009 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evlreala
10-05-2009 4:13 PM


Is there a generally accepted definition for "kind"?
Yep, a kind includes the original created kinds created by YHWH/elohim and named by Adam (and their descendants) which did not evolve from any previous organisms.
As to how we know what organism belongs to what kind - no that's largely impossible. Creationists seem to take a view similar to that famous quote about pornography: I can't define it but I know it when I see it.

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 19 of 42 (528454)
10-06-2009 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Peg
10-06-2009 6:19 AM


From an evolutionary perspective - there are no arbitrary barriers between organisms. If I got all living things together in a room and pointed at one of them I could, in principle, point to something else that is the same species as that one. Then I could point to something else that was the same species as the second one. And I could keep pointing at things which are the same species as the last one moving from one organism to the next until I've moved from an ostrich to an orchid.
This is because all are related to each other. It is only the fact that most animals that have lived are now dead that means we can't do this so easily on earth.
But nobody makes any claims about what a species is or is not capable of so an absolute definition of it is less important.
Creationists do make claims about 'kinds' but are unable to determine what is or what is not a 'kind'.
Am I a different 'kind' than my father?
Is a mule a different kind than a donkey?
Is Drosophila paulistorum (fruitfly) a different kind than Drosophila melanogaster (fruitfly)?
If we observe one population coming from another and the 'daughter' population is unable to interbreed with the 'parent' population: does that mean a new kind has been created?

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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 30 of 42 (530427)
10-13-2009 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Peg
10-13-2009 4:55 AM


no arbitary barriers kind of implies that all living things should be capable of cross breeding...ie horse with cow or rabbit with wombat
what do you mean exactly.
What I mean is that if I got all things that have ever lived together in a room and pointed at one of them I could, in principle, point to something else that is the same species as that one. Then I could point to something else that was the same species as the second one. And I could keep pointing at things which are the same species as the last one moving from one organism to the next until I've moved from an ostrich to an orchid.
It does not mean that all things are capable of cross breeding.
Creationists do make claims about 'kinds' but are unable to determine what is or what is not a 'kind'.
well humans are 1 kind
So you say. But you are still lack a method for determining if a rat is the same kind as a mouse or if they are the same kinds as a squirrel.
yet all humans can interbreed because they are the same 'kind'
IOW there is only one 'kind' of the human species.
Indeed - if things can interbreed they are part of the same kind according to you. But as far as I can tell you think that somethings are part of the same kind that can't interbreed. And this is to what I was referring to - you can't tell if two species are of the same kind or not.

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