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Author | Topic: The mystery of Job. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Raha Inactive Member |
Bible, Old Testament, the book of Job: Where this book came from? It is quite evident that it is very different from the rest of Old Testament.
[This message has been edited by Raha, 08-31-2003]
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Newborn Inactive Member |
Jesus never said that
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Newborn Inactive Member |
Jesus never said that
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Jesus never said that Says you. But Matthew 19:24 says:
quote:
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phil Guest |
Jesus did not tell people to stay poor in Matthew 19:24. He simply is warning them of the dangers of being rich. I am not trying to be mean here, but seriously, think. You know what this passage is trying to say.
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
Well said.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I am not trying to be mean here, but seriously, think. You know what this passage is trying to say. Yeah, it's pretty clear what it says - it says that if you're still wealthy by the time you die, you haven't done nearly enough to help your fellow person. But if it's not a suggestion to be poor, why do monks interpret this passage to support their vow of poverty? Are you sure this just isn't you, assuming your interpretation is the most literal? [This message has been edited by crashfrog, 08-31-2003]
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Raha Inactive Member |
Can you, please, take this discussion about what Jesus said or not into another thread? This one is supposed to be about the origin of book of Job.
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judge Member (Idle past 6444 days) Posts: 216 From: australia Joined: |
This article tries to make a case that Job was Tobit's son
Tobias. Forbidden It is apparent from reading old and new commentaries on the Book of Job that, after all this time, the holy man has still not been firmly located to any specific historical era. Job comes across as being, like Melchizedek, profoundly mysterious; someone who just appears 'out of nowhere', without a known beginning. The Rev. Frank Knight summed it up when, referring to the book's historical details, he wrote [1]: The authorship, date, and place of composition of the Book of Job constitute some of the most keenly contested and most uncertain problems in Biblical Criticism. There is perhaps no book in the Canon of Scripture to which more diverse dates have been assigned. Every period of Jewish history, from BC 1400 to BC 150, has had its advocates as that to which this mysterious and magnificent poem must be relegated, and this criticism ranges over 1200 years of uncertainty. In this article I shall be attempting to narrow down dramatically that "1200" year period "of uncertainty", to a specific era, using a combination of Syrian legends about Job and the apocryphal book of Tobit. [This message has been edited by judge, 08-31-2003]
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THEONE  Inactive Member |
There are eight different opinions regarding when Job lived, which are noted in the Talmud (Hebrew Oral Torah, the text Christians disregarded and substituted for New Testament). There is even a ninth opinion that the story of Job is a parable, that he never lived at all (Talmud, Bava Basra 15a-b).
Maharal explains that the theme of suffering is universal and cannot be isolated to any particular period. That is why (as you noted) this book is quite unique, it does not say when or in what context the events took place.
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Zealot Inactive Member |
It actually refers to all burdens of man, not just financial.
David for instance was pretty wealthy. It sais that you should not put your faith in money, not that you have to forsake money, but that your faith should be in God, not in the sum in your bank account. Simply put, whether you are rich or poor, it shouldn't affect your relationship with God.
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
I understand that you may possibly be writing in other topic or forum at this time. Hopefully I can be of some minor help with your question #3. Specifically about Satan and the sons of God; According to ancient Jewish beliefs, Satan, which means something like "accuser" in the text of Job was a particular son of God assigned to do God's dirty-work. Satan's job was to go all over the earth and test mankind's faith in God. Therefor Satan in the beginnig was not an enemy of God. He was one of God's inner court of angles.
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Raha Inactive Member |
Yes, but how come God has sons? What is their supposed status? Are they gods as well? (where is monotheism then?) or demi-gods? or what? And also - how he begot them? Does God have a wife? Or is he parthenogenetic?
I think the most prevalent theory for Christian Satan is that he is based on Zoroastrian Ahriman, but Satan of Job does not fit that picture, because, as you pointed out, he does not appear to be God’s enemy. And why God needs someone to test people’s faith? ------------------Life has no meaning but itself. [This message has been edited by Raha, 09-27-2003]
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Rei Member (Idle past 7013 days) Posts: 1546 From: Iowa City, IA Joined: |
Over in this thread:
http://EvC Forum: How can we be possibly be happy in Heaven? -->EvC Forum: How can we be possibly be happy in Heaven? I discuss the appearences of Satan throughout the bible - his curious absence early on, how when he first appears, it's in the retelling of an earlier story, in which God had done something evil (and now was replaced by Satan), and the evolution of Satan in relation to the history of the Israelites. ------------------"Illuminant light, illuminate me."
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Prozacman Inactive Member |
All very good questions, and I may only have possible satisfactory answers for some of them. It may be helpful to pick up a book at the library or bookstore(if it is available) titled "The Origin of Satan" by Elane Pagels. Also, if you can, get a copy of the New Revised Standard Version of the New Oxford Annotated Bible and refer to the notes about Satan on pages' 420,526,1223. In these passeges and in the notes one may see the relationship between Satan and God. Apparently sons of God in this context are angels that belong to God's court. As someone has said in another topic(I don't remember where), Satan is God's Prosecuting-Attorney. I have heard of a theory which states that the angels of God in the Old Test. used to be separate gods belonging to the old Babylonian religion; or was it Canaanite, or Egyptian?? Perhaps more research is in order, or maybe someone else in this forum can fill us in. Now if we assume that YHWH(or is it Elohim?) was syncretized from the gods of Egypt, then indeed "God" may have had a wife. The same may also be said if God was a syncretistic production from the Canaanite and Babylonian gods and goddesses. More study will probably bring clarity to this problem. You may be correct in asserting that the "Christian" Satan was based on the Zoroastrian Ahriman. I would be interested to see your research on this. Why does God need to test people's faith? Hmmm...It may have something to do with free-will. Maybe God really is limited and can't do it himself.(herself?)
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