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Author Topic:   The moons, eclipses, and timing
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 52 of 112 (530277)
10-12-2009 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Coragyps
10-12-2009 7:21 PM


Re: Serious subjects
You have addresses or last names for any of 'em?
Sure do. Same address that I have for the verification of Julius Caesar who was emperor of Rome; that Charlemagne was head of the 'Holy Roman Empire'; that Henry VII was king of England in 1525; that Napolean Bonaparte won the battle of Liepzig. It's all a part of A-1 historical sources by multiple witnesses. However, the scriptures, unlike the less than dozen legitimate sources that Ceasar was emperor of Rome, has over 5,000 extant manuscripts, fragments of which go right back to the first century.
To put it simply, the existent Greek texts that are scattered in museums and churches all over the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Coragyps, posted 10-12-2009 7:21 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 53 of 112 (530280)
10-12-2009 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by ZenMonkey
10-12-2009 8:32 PM


Re: Serious subjects
No, what Josephus can most reliably attest to is the existence of a group of people who called themselves Christians and that they believed Jesus to have been resurrected
Sort of like Edward Gibbon was to the "Rise & Fall of the Roman Empire"...right?
The thing you quoted is in question only among skeptics like you, not among the historians who have turned to Josephus countless times throughout the history of Christianity.
Likewise, some Christians claim 500 eyewitness accounts of the resurrected Jesus. They are mistaken. What they have is one person saying that there are 500 witnesses
From a highly respected man who converted people even within Caesar's household and died for what he believed in. I believe him, not you nor anyone of your persuasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ZenMonkey, posted 10-12-2009 8:32 PM ZenMonkey has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 55 of 112 (530868)
10-15-2009 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by mark24
10-12-2009 11:36 PM


Re: Serious subjects
You are way, way to credulous when it comes to what you will accept as evidence in support of your views & exactly the opposite when it comes to what doesn't. Special pleading.
What an idiotic statement. I gave four lines of evidence for the historical accuracy of the crucifixion of Christ and like his comrades in unbelief, he passes it off so lightly as if it were nothing. The (1) prophetic utterances, (2) the independent witnesses, (3) the corroboration of eyewitnesses, & (4) the confirmation of natural phenomena by computer analysis on eclipses.
His attitude is just typical of those whose minds are prejudiced against a supernatural world that was created by a supernatural, all-powerful Creator God and that His eternal decree blueprinted the events and occurrences of our world.
For the rest of you (who might know how to think) the answer is either cloud cover made things so dark that that it the way things appeared, but since the matter was experienced hundreds of miles away by other witnesses it is not likely it was cloud cover. It was probably a supernatural event. But how can we know for certain? I only know it was not a solar eclipse because a lunar eclipse was in progress at the time and the such events are always separated by at least two weeks.
[thumb=100]http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h106/Martyrs5/CA6PP4X7.jpg[/thumb=100]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by mark24, posted 10-12-2009 11:36 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Modulous, posted 10-15-2009 11:28 AM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 59 by mark24, posted 10-15-2009 12:40 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 57 of 112 (530880)
10-15-2009 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Modulous
10-15-2009 11:28 AM


Re: Serious subjects
Prophesising something will happen does not mean it happened.
But the foretelling of the lunar eclipse was prophesied (Joel 2:31) and it occurred as he said it would as verified by Peter who was an eyewitness (Acts 2:20).
The witnesses attest that there was some kind of sun darkening. I don't think anybody has spent much time contesting this.
Then why bother replying on this point? Why not regard those witnesses as corroborating evidence as it should be?
Yes we know there was a partial eclipse visible to various marine life in the Atlantic ocean
It was enough of an eclipse that people in Israel saw it. Again, it was a supernatural event. Leaving Almighty God out of the equation is always the great fault of skeptics like you. But those of us who have seen his power know what He can do. When Christ returns to earth 'every eye shall see him' no matter from what location on earth that coming is viewed by human eyes.
Sorry - what did you expect? You told us some people predicted some things which are only vaguely related to the story of Jesus in a similar way that horoscopes are related to my life.
You are the one who will be sorry. You missed the significance of the life and death of the most important person who ever lived on this planet. That's really too bad.
By the way, the prophecy of Daniel foretelling the exact time of Christ's death is not vague. You just don't care enough to find out how accurate he really was.
Edited by Calypsis4, : addition

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Modulous, posted 10-15-2009 11:28 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 12:34 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 89 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2009 8:35 AM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 60 of 112 (530897)
10-15-2009 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Coragyps
10-15-2009 12:34 PM


Re: Serious subjects
Really! Acts 2:20 is written, after the Day of Pentecost and so post-resurrection, in the future tense, Cal:
"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:"
The event is one of a double fulfillment. It occurred in the past and will occur just prior to the 2nd coming of Christ. Double fulfillment is seen often in scripture, just as is the case concerning the two advents.
The coming of Elijah was spoken of as preceding the 'day of the Lord' which involves both the 1st advent and 2nd advent of Christ in the world. John the Baptist fulifilled the prophecy of Malachi 4:5-6 according to Jesus who described him as "Elijah" IF ( I stress the word "IF") the Jews would receive his message. They did not, so the kingdom was postponed until a later time. That time is yet to come and Elijah will be revealed before the coming of Christ. It has a double fulfillment.
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And IF ye will receive it, this is Elias(Elijah), which was for to come.
Matthew 11:13-14.
And according to your NASA source, the lunar eclipse, which was at best marginally observable from the Mideast, didn't occur until sunset, when the crucifiction was a done deal. Pretty shaky "prophecy" if you ask me.
You weren't there. The Jews who saw it were. When Peter later brought this fact to the attention of the unbelieving Jews in public they did not argue with him.(Acts 2:37)
The point is that had not Christ died according to the foretelling of that death and risen from the dead, corroborating his own veracity, then Christianity would not even exist in our day.
P.S. Your 'invisible pink unicorn' doesn't answer personal prayer. The God that I serve does. Often.
Edited by Calypsis4, : additions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 12:34 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 1:26 PM Calypsis4 has not replied
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Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 61 of 112 (530901)
10-15-2009 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by mark24
10-15-2009 12:40 PM


Re: Serious subjects
It is nothing.
That will cost you eternally. What an awful attitude.
This is October 15, 2009 A.D. What does A.D. stand for? Nothing?
You are nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by mark24, posted 10-15-2009 12:40 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 1:19 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 66 by DrJones*, posted 10-15-2009 1:33 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 69 by ICANT, posted 10-15-2009 1:45 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 75 by mark24, posted 10-15-2009 4:43 PM Calypsis4 has replied
 Message 87 by Theodoric, posted 10-15-2009 11:51 PM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 63 of 112 (530904)
10-15-2009 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Coragyps
10-15-2009 1:19 PM


Re: Serious subjects
IT stands for 'Thor's day'.
Was the entire dating system of the world based on the birth, life, and death of Thor?
Fool. The truth is that you just don't care.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 1:19 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 1:29 PM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 67 of 112 (530914)
10-15-2009 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by DrJones*
10-15-2009 1:33 PM


Re: Serious subjects
The 354th day of the 32nd year of the reign of DrJones.
So?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by DrJones*, posted 10-15-2009 1:33 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by DrJones*, posted 10-15-2009 1:39 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 70 of 112 (530920)
10-15-2009 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by DrJones*
10-15-2009 1:39 PM


Re: Serious subjects
So your claim that the use of BC and AD somehow gives credence to christian mythology doesn't stand up due to the use of multiple other dating systems.
My claim? It's history. There is nothing you can do about it, skeptic.
"We account the Scriptures of God to be the most sublime philosophy. I find more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history whatsoever .... Worshipping God and the Lamb in the temple: God, for his benefaction in creating all things, and the Lamb, for his benefaction in redeeming us with his blood.
"To us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him. That is, We are to worship the Father alone as God Almighty, and Jesus alone as the Lord, the Messiah, the Great King, the Lamb of God who was slain, and hath redeemed us with His blood, and made us kings and priests." Isaac Newton.
It seems that Sir Isaac got the point.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by DrJones*, posted 10-15-2009 1:39 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by DrJones*, posted 10-15-2009 2:07 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 71 of 112 (530921)
10-15-2009 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by ICANT
10-15-2009 1:45 PM


Re: Serious subjects
Since AD is offensive to them they have come up with CE meaning Common Era. The religious people who don't want to retain God in their mind can use this to mean Christian Era.
God Bless,
Amen. The same to you, friend.
'Christian Era'? Right. The era that began with the birth of Christ. They will never escape Him no matter what they do.
It will mean 'nothing' to them until they stand before the Creator God in that appointed day when all men shall give account of themselves to Him.
Best wishes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by ICANT, posted 10-15-2009 1:45 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-15-2009 5:24 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 73 of 112 (530928)
10-15-2009 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by DrJones*
10-15-2009 2:07 PM


Re: Serious subjects
I'm not denying that historically BC and AD have been and are used in the Gregorian calender, I'm denying that this fact gives any backing to christian mythology.
The power of God that I have seen in my experience and in the experience of many of my companions around the world, some of whom I know personally, is not a myth. We see the promises of the Lord in scripture and we experience them.
The only thing I experience as it concerns skeptics is resentmet and hate.
The topic post stands correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by DrJones*, posted 10-15-2009 2:07 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 76 of 112 (530965)
10-15-2009 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by mark24
10-15-2009 4:43 PM


Re: Serious subjects
Let's face it, you fucked up.
You're a sorry reprobate.
You have no idea what Almighty God can do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by mark24, posted 10-15-2009 4:43 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by onifre, posted 10-15-2009 5:04 PM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 78 by mark24, posted 10-15-2009 5:04 PM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 80 by Huntard, posted 10-15-2009 5:13 PM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 83 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 5:46 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 82 of 112 (530987)
10-15-2009 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by DevilsAdvocate
10-15-2009 5:24 PM


Re: Serious subjects
I find this appalling. And let me guess you will be smirking and gloating while God casts the 'evil sinners' into a never-ending burning lake of fire. Then you can get your party on.
How far removed from reality you are. I wouldn't wish hell fire on my worst enemy.
The Lord makes an invitation to all to join Him in heaven forever but you and the other skeptics here act like you are all allergic to the Creator God who made you. That's very sad.
What was said in the topic post is of the greatest importance and it all stands true. Every bit of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-15-2009 5:24 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-28-2009 8:52 PM Calypsis4 has replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 84 of 112 (531004)
10-15-2009 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Coragyps
10-15-2009 5:46 PM


Re: Serious subjects
How did the sky get dark all over the Roman world, Cal? "Supernaturally" isn't an answer.
'Supernatural' IS an answer whether you like it or not.
But even if I were to acquiesce on this point (I won't)... you still aren't being honest enough to deal with the facts of the topic post: At least two well known independent witnesses observed the event though they were hundreds of miles away. They testified at being able to see the stars because it was so dark.
Why?
Nor I unsalted, unbuttered boiled turnips on mine. But you may be risking just that.....
I can prophesy your future right here and now and I'm not even a prophet. It can be spelled...'i-g-n-o-r-e'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Coragyps, posted 10-15-2009 5:46 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by mark24, posted 10-16-2009 1:50 AM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 90 of 112 (531128)
10-16-2009 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Modulous
10-16-2009 8:35 AM


Re: Serious subjects
But lunar eclipses happen. Prophesising one will is not impressive. And the one in 33AD wasn't the one that Joel prophesied because he was talking about a full lunar eclipse.
You are deliberately turning your mind away from the truth. You also resort to lies. Joel said nothing about whether the elcipse would be full or not. Why don't you even try to be honest and read the book for yourself?
Because they aren't corroborating witnesses to the crucifixion of Christ.
You lied again. You act as if you never heard of Matthew, John, or Peter.
You cited scientific evidence which left YHWH out of the equation. I showed how the scientific evidence you cited doesn't corroborate your prophecy.
God planned it all, you blind fool. I've been in this long enough to know that if we were disucssing Julius Caesar, or Charlemagne, or Henry VII you would not be saying the ridiculous things you've said and you would think that so many evidences corroborating their lives would be remarkable. But like your comrades in unbelief you have a bigotry against the Lord who made you and you won't accept any facts of history that would necessitate such an acceptance.
It's a waste of time even going further with you because you don't care about the truth.
Edited by Calypsis4, : addition

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2009 8:35 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2009 9:43 AM Calypsis4 has not replied
 Message 94 by Theodoric, posted 10-16-2009 1:46 PM Calypsis4 has not replied

  
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