How to feed and keep the animals on the Ark?

THE Dinosaur? Surely by the biblical narrative there would be 14 dinosuars, and 14 elephants, and 14 blue whales and 14 giraffes and 14 of every other 'clean' animal?The big problem with taking 'toddlers' is that they feed far more frequently than adults, they require far more looking after and there were supposed to be only 8 people on the Ark.By biblical chronology, the flood was roughly 4500 years ago. Now you are asking us to believe that not only did 7 pairs of dinosaurs evolve into the hundreds of different species of dinosaur THEY also had the time to become extinct as well. All this and not a single human being mentions their existance?I also would like to know where Naoh kept the aquariums, 14 blue whales would require an enormous ammount of space and an enourmous ammount of food. from http://www.schoolworld.asn.au/species/blwhale3.htmlNoah's flood is a children's story, adults need ot learn to let go of their childhood and grow up.Brian.

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If the number can be agreed at 17,000 - 20,000, it would seem like enough room for them.

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How? Lets take me, for example. If you crammed me into a space 3x3x6 feet, I'd occupy 54 cubit feet, though I doubt I could survive a year like that. That means the ark could carry 28,111 creatures my size. This is without food, water, or sanitation.Now lets add some other factors.Your figure of 1,518,000 is total. We must factor in area occupied by the structure of the boat itself. This structure would have to be massive, if the ship had any chance at all to survive. You are probably going to have to subtract 25% of that volume. That gives us 1,138,500 cubic feet-- or 21,083 critters my size. Still, we are without food and water.Lets say I eat about 1500 pounds of food a years. That is about one steer. That, dead and magically frozen, would take up another 3x3x6 space at least. So we cut our numbers in half and end up with 10,541.Now for water... If I drink half a gallon of water a day, I'd need 24 magically fresh cubic feet for a year. Now we have 54 feet for me, 54 feet for food, and 24 feet for water. That totals 132 feet. That means the ship could hold 8625 creatures my size.Now sanitation... I can't stand in my own poo for a year. I wouldn't survive. Nor could any other animal. So, we have to pipe this stuff to somewhere and down is the only way to go. I doubt Noah had pumps, nor could 8 people transport this volume of waste up and out the 3x3 opening in the top. We need the whole bottom deck for septic services, and that wouldn't be adequate but humor me. Thus, the habitable volume is further reduced by a third, giving us 759,000 cubit feet and room for 5750 creatures my size.Still on the subject of sanitation, lets think about methane from that lower level. Simply put, everything dies.Now, we need corridors. Noah and his busy crew are supposed to care for the animals. This means that you can't cram cage against cage, you have to have access to the cages. This will reduce the number you could house by another third, easily. You end up with about 3834 creatures my size.Now, for the care-taking... We have 3,834 animals and 8 care-takers. I dare you to find a zoo that can function with those ratios. That is 1.3 days of care per animal over the course of the year.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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THE Dinosaur? Surely by the biblical narrative there would be 14 dinosuars, and 14 elephants, and 14 blue whales and 14 giraffes and 14 of every other 'clean' animal?

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The big problem with taking 'toddlers' is that they feed far more frequently than adults, they require far more looking after and there were supposed to be only 8 people on the Ark.

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By biblical chronology, the flood was roughly 4500 years ago. Now you are asking us to believe that not only did 7 pairs of dinosaurs evolve into the hundreds of different species of dinosaur THEY also had the time to become extinct as well. All this and not a single human being mentions their existance?

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I also would like to know where Naoh kept the aquariums, 14 blue whales would require an enormous ammount of space and an enourmous ammount of food.

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You surely know speciation happens very quickly????"Only land-dwelling, air-breathing animals and birds were on the Ark (Genesis 7:14,15; 21-23). The sceptic's caricature that Noah had fish tanks on the ark is wrong."-AIGLook at the links on this page for evidence of a flood:
The Flood | Answers in Genesis

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Noah's flood is a children's story, adults need ot learn to let go of their childhood and grow up.

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Sure.------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

Not that quickly. And especially not if your maintaining a worldview that specifically precludes evolution. After all if organisms could speciate this quickly, then they should be giving rise to new kinds all the time - or else, running headlong into whatever "Barrier" you claim prevents new kinds. Either way we'd see it happen. Then there's no way fish and whales could have survived. Floodwaters dirty enough to deposit the geologic column would have been mud, not a flood. Fish can't breathe mud. If the fish can't survive then the whales can't survive, especially the baleen whales.That fish and whales survive to this day is indicative of one of two things: Noah took aquariums on the Ark; or the Flood is a fairy tale.

Hybrids of wild trout (freshwater) and farmed salmon (migratory species) have been discovered in Scotland (New Scientist 146:22, May 27, 1995), suggesting that the differences between freshwater and marine types may be quite minor. Indeed, the differences in physiology seem to be largely differences in degree rather than kind with the kidneys of freshwater species excreting excess water (low salt concentration urine) and those of marine species excreting excess salt (high salt concentration urine). Saltwater sharks have high concentrations of urea in the blood to retain water in the saltwater environment whereas freshwater sharks have low concentrations of urea to avoid accumulating water. Sawfish species which move from saltwater to freshwater increase their urine output twentyfold and the blood urea concentration decreases to less than one-third.Aquatic mammals such as whales and dolphins would have been well-placed to survive the Flood, not being dependent on clean water to breathe.-AIG------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"holla at me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 08-31-2003]

Uh-huh, fascinating. Of course the potential for one or two species of fish to survive a change in salinity is totally irrelevant to the question of all known fish species surviving not a change in salinity, but rather, a change from clear water to mud. On the other hand, they are dependant on clean water to eat. AIG convieniently forgets to mention that.

Acts and Facts Magazine | The Institute for Creation Research

What's the relevance here? Especially to whales? (Also there's that little forum guideline about links with no discussion. This suggests to me that you don't really understand the article.)[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 08-31-2003]

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Hybrids of wild trout (freshwater) and farmed salmon (migratory species) have been discovered in Scotland (New Scientist 146:22, May 27, 1995), suggesting that the differences between freshwater and marine types may be quite minor.

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Did you notice that many species of trout migrate from fresh to salt water? That should tell you that the genus has a peculiar gift for the transition. And the same is true of salmon. This is really not much of a fresh/salt comparison.Tell you what. If you think the differences are minor, go get yourself an aquarium, set up a nice salt-water tank and fill it with fresh-water fish. Or try the reverse. That simple little experiment ought to dispell the illusion.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

I dare say, a vast majority of animals capable of surviving in water such as whales, seals, porpoises, sea turtles, alligators, lobsters, shrimp, crabs and other arthropods, fish, tunicates, echinoderms, mollusks, coelenterates, and the sort would not need to be brought aboard the ark to survive. Noah had appr. 120 years to prepare for the event. 120 years to build the Ark and pack literally tons of food. He, most likely, hired laborers throughout a portion of that century; as well as capitalizing on the services of Shem, Ham and Japheth. The ark was to have rooms in it and be coated with pitch inside and out.Also,a door in the side, and lower, middle and upper decks. That's three levels, each with the potenial of a 12-15 feet height. This is, all together, a massive unit. The total available floor space on the ark would have been over 100,000 square feet; the equivalent floor space of more than 20 standard-sized basketball courts. Assuming the average animal was comparable to the size of a sheep {generous} and using a railroad car for comparison, I can tell you from experience that the average double-deck stock car can accommodate appr. 230-250 sheep. So, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have seem ample space to carry 50,000 animals, filling only 35-40% of the ark. This would leave enough room for potentially an additional 361 cars. Or, enough to make 5 trains of 72 cars each to carry all of the food and baggage plus Noah and his family of eight people. Looking at the available specs, it would seem The Ark had plenty of space.------------------
I refuse to match wits with anybody who is unarmed.Anon.

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Well now, Schraf, I think I can get our creationist friends out of this muddle before they even get here. All they need to do is accept Eohippus (= Hyracotherium) as the Noachic representative of the Horse Kind, and they're in the clear! Medium dog-sized, eats and drinks less, maybe even easy to housebreak.....

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Well, yes, smaller, but according to some creationists Hyracotherium is not a horse at all, so that wouldn't work for them.In addition, Hyracotherium was a browser, not a grazer. It was a forest dweller rather than a plains dweller. It ate tender leaves and the tips of branches. That would be even harder for Noah to store than dried grasses.

No, I'd say he had at most a few weeks to pack literally tons of food. After all, food doesn't keep for long. If he'd started packing the food 120 years early, it would have been dust by the time the flood came. For that matter the food wouldn't have kept for even the 150 days with shipboard conditions (high humidity, temperature, and darkness - set up the same conditions and see how long a bread loaf lasts.)Noah's not an astronaut, after all. No freeze-dried, vacumn-sealed ice cream for him. No food preservation techniques of any kind, largely.

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I recommend the book "Noah's Ark: A feasibility Study" by John Woodmorappe, 1996.

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The following info is from that same discussion from a year ago. (It's message 29 in the "Animals on the Ark" thread in this topic) It was posted by John Paul and is, according to him, from Woodmorappe's book. It referrs to the foods which were stored on the Ark.:

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On page 19 of the book Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study it breaks it down.

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settled barn-dried hay- 21,800 cubic meters

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lightly-compressed hay pellet- 7,060 cubic meters

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doubly-compressed hay- 5,410 cubic meters

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pellted horse food and pellted cattle food- 3,030 cubic meters...

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My reply (message 53 from the "Animals on the Ark" thread) is just as good now as a comment as it was then, so here it is:

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OK.

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Let me get this straight.

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You are really wanting me to believe that Noah had PELLETED HAY AND HORSE FEED? You have got to be completely crazy if you are asking me to believe such a thing. Oh, and what the heck is "doubly-compressed hay", and how did Noah compress it?

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Did they drive down to the feed store in their Ford pickup to buy it in 100 pound bags, or did they have the feed store deliver it to the Ark building site on their delivery flatbed? Do you think they would have chosen a 9% protein or a 12% protein? Do you think they went for the Purina, or did they choose Omolene, or another brand?

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

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Please forgive the incredulousness and sarcasm of my reply to Woodmorappe's suggestions that Noah had access to compressed hay or pelleted horse feed, but COME ON! It is laughable to suggest such a thing.Have you read Woodmorappe's book? If you have, and if you believe it, where do you think Noah got the pelleted feed from?Also, there was never any discussion about the fresh water. Where would they have kept the fresh water?

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Only land-dwelling, air-breathing animals and birds were on the Ark (Genesis 7:14,15; 21-23). The sceptic's caricature that Noah had fish tanks on the ark is wrong."

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But what about the fact that some fish are salt-water fish and others are fresh water fish. Also, some need warm waters and others need cool waters.If the entire surface of the Earth was covered with water, there would be a mass die-off of marine life of all kinds because their environment, in fact the very water they "breathe", would be radically different in a matter of days or weeks.

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No food preservation techniques of any kind, largely.

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There were plenty of food preservation techniques in existence back then.Cheese, cured and dried meats, and cured olives come to mind.However, these kinds of food are appropriate for humans, not animals, and you are also correct, of course, that none of these things could possibly keep for 120 years. Cheese could keep the longest at maybe 5 years.