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Author Topic:   Squaring circles: direct biblical contradictions
Granny Magda
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Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
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Message 92 of 161 (532477)
10-23-2009 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Blzebub
10-23-2009 12:02 PM


Re: Errors
Hi Blzebub and if I haven't said so already, welcome to EvC.
First, let me make my own position clear; I don't like the Bible. I think it is a nasty little book. It's full of bad advice, bad morality and bad history. It's a bad book. I myself am an atheist.
Having said that, I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle.
For starters, some of the contradictions you've chosen are quite weak. Two different prices? Who gives a shit? It is certainly a contradiction, but it is an absurdly trivial point.
Secondly, you seem to be insistent on viewing the Bible through modern eyes, which is, in my view, a mistake. It is not a modern work, it is a product of its times. The example of Lot is a good one here. You say that it is a contradiction. I disagree. It only becomes a contradiction when viewed through the rose-coloured glasses of modern morality.
I agree that Lot's actions come across as abhorrent to a modern audience. But the story wasn't written for a modern audience, it was written for a society where misogyny was the norm. That's the reason why Lot shows so much greater concern for protecting his male guests than for his own daughter. But it is not a contradiction. If anything, it is very much in line with the treatment of women in the Old Testament, i.e. piss-poor.
When the Bible claims that God is good, it does so by the low standards of its own era and depicts him (and his chosen favourites) in this light. There is no contradiction in that, indeed, there would be more of a contradiction if Lot's actions were in line with modern morality.
Don't get me wrong; I think the story of Lot is a problem for Christians. I think it highlights the disconnect between our moral values and those of the Bible (this kind of thing is usually more obvious in the OT). The story is oft quoted by sceptics (Dawkins is fond of citing it) and I think that is a good thing. But it is only worth bringing up because it demonstrates poor moral values in the Bible, not because it contradicts some other part of the text. It is of much more use in countering the "morality comes from the Bible" argument.
The third reason why I think you are picking the wrong target is this;
Blzebub writes:
This is what the thread is supposed to be about. A clear "mission statement" which sets out the rationale for belief: the bible is the word of god, and cannot be questioned.
I have to say, that is a version of Christianity limited to a comparatively few believers. I don't think that the majority of Christians would share that assessment of their beliefs. I think that most Christians would take a slightly more enlightened view, namely that the errors and contradictions in the text are human errors and that the Bible is not perfect.
In attacking this minority hard-line opinion, you are, at best, arguing with a minor rump of fundamentalist believers. At worst, when you paint this as being the opinion of all Christians, you are attacking a strawman. I guess what I’m saying is that in trying to force your opponents into a hard-line position, you are guaranteed to waste your time; the real hardliners won’t listen and the moderates never believed it in the first place.
Whilst I admire your zeal, my advice is that you save your ammo for more deserving targets. If nothing else, contradictions rarely impress the kind of Christian you have been describing. They always have a glib answer for anything you bring up. I think there are stronger arguments to be made against religion.
Oh and by the way, when purpledawn says this;
purpledawn writes:
I'm probably the most neutral person here (IMO) when it comes to reading the Bible text. I'm not the most knowledgeable, but my belief system doesn't need protecting. Dogma is what I battle.
she ain’t lyin’. PD is one of the most honest and thoughtful members on here and one of the people whose posts I always make time to read. She is no rabid fundamentalist, defending the Bible against all accusations regardless of their truth. I think you should readdress what she’s been saying, because you seem to be talking past her.
Mutate and Survive

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Blzebub, posted 10-23-2009 12:02 PM Blzebub has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by purpledawn, posted 10-23-2009 3:39 PM Granny Magda has not replied
 Message 98 by purpledawn, posted 10-24-2009 8:20 AM Granny Magda has seen this message but not replied

  
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