Precognition Causality Quantum Theory and Mysticism

And of course, you have the experiments to show this? I can agree with that as long as we make the distinction between the person out to study a supposed paranormal phenomenon for scientific reasons and is willing to let their hypothesis be falsified from the person who uses science to make a buck selling his new age books.I don't know enough about Sheldrake to make a decision on him, but I do know there are people out there who are exactly as you describe - using science for their own benefit with no thought to how science actually works.

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It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
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You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

It is rarely (ex)colleagues of mine that write the layman explanations on the NASA website. They would be rtaher poor colleagues if they did, given the number of mistakes and misunderstandings presented there. Fortunately, scientists do not have to depend upon website misinformation As I mentioned, this is off-topic for the thread. My main complaint with what you were saying was regarding your misrepresentations of string theory, mainly by being caught up with the peevish idiocy of those such as Peter Woit and Lee Smolin.

Here's a start: CIA's InvestigationsThe CIA has been quite interested in this, since it would give our spies quite a boost to be able to spy from a distance, or to be able to kill from a distance without leaving evidence...but they have abandoned their research, and even if they haven't, they've been very circumspect about their targets, at best. Killing Osama or Saddam should be pretty easy for telepathic or telekinetic people.There are some people who claim the CIA and/or the Navy are still investigating this, but I doubt it. I do know SRI has lost government funding, if they're still in operation at all...

Fair play. Mine was just a general comment and a plea to those, such as youself, who might be deflected from legitimate lines of questioning by the relentless use of "off-topic" as a diversion tactic. As has been the case all too often in recent threads and has been attempted in this thread too. Stick to your guns and don't take that as an excuse from those seeking to evade is my advice. Let the admins, not those under interrogation, decide what is and is not on topic.

Sheldrake uses various outlets to publicise himself including those linked to in this post which explores his (undetectable and thus inherently irrefutable) morphic fields "hypothesis". Message 66This guy is abusing terminology to sell books to the lay public as science when in fact he is selling supernatural mysticism.

Unfortunately for me, I have no recourse but to learn from websites. Like I said, if you had something to add, add it or supply a site where I can get better information. Otherwise telling me my understanding of cosmology, etc, etc, is less than wrong does nothing to aid in my understanding of the world around me and, while it most likely matters little to you, makes me value your opinions less when you have done nothing to better inform me of my mistakes. As for your main complaint, my argument there was that there were physicists that didn't believe in MWI or string theory. Onifre wanted support for my assertion and I gave it to him. What I personally believe may, in fact, be far different from what I argue.Your criticism of your fellow physicists aside, I wanted to show that the nature of some well-accepted concepts in physics are unknown, at least to common knowledge. And the fact that every website I have looked at suggests this "unknown" quality of dark energy and dark matter (don't read much about string theory) suggests that what I read is correct. So your criticism aside, my argument that the unknown quality of dark matter/energy is cause for skepticism of those concepts similarly as the unknown quality of telepathy is cause for skepticism in telepathy still holds true.And just for you, an article entitled A One Parameter Family of Expanding Wave Solutions of the Einstein Equations That Induces an Anomalous Acceleration Into the Standard Model of Cosmology, (with B. Temple), Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, (USA) that describes a mutiple ripple effect to explain the dimming of the light from distant stars and galaxies instead of dark energy. Since I have no access to the article, I can't explain it better than that.Edited by Izanagi, : No reason given.

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It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
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You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

I do know that the military did research into telepathy and other paranormal phenomenon. One experiment had them having the soldiers try to use their minds to burst the hearts of goats. The entire time the experiment was being run, one goat's heart was burst and I think the story was the soldier wasn't even focusing on that goat. Whatever it was, it was clear to the military that their soldiers wouldn't be able to burst the hearts of their enemies with their minds.Anyway, I was more asking out of curiosity than anything.

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It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
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You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

What do you think is meant by the term "evidenced possibility"?Does evidence in favour of the phenomenon under consideration (e.g. telepathy) in itself provide evidence for the proposed explanation for said phenomeon (e.g. morphic fields)?Are morphic fields an evidenced possibilty? Is the existence of dark matter an evidenced posibility? Was anti-matter an evidenced possibility at the point that it was mathematically predicted but experimentally unverified? Are black holes an evidenced possibilty? What is the evidence for black holes and was this phenomenon evidenced as a possibility before any direct observational evidence existed?Do you see what I am getting at here or not?

Taking a look at his website, and assuming he does sell books, I would think that he could use the money from the books and tapes he sold to fund more research. Not having access to his tax records, I couldn't say definitively so, but it would seem to me that if he had been serious about his research he would have a bit more recent research.But apparently he uses the internet to conduct his research, which seems a bit lazy and unscientific to me. So I would agree with you that Sheldrake seems less than serious about bringing the paranormal into the normal and has likely capitalized on his New Age fame.

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It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
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You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

I'm not sure if this applies here, but I've noticed this tendency for people to think that by criticising an experiment setup that is somehow indicative that one is dismissing the possibility that the thing the experiment was testing for because it doesn't fit into some worldview.I've not dismissed telepathy in this thread, I've even attempted to give a theoretical account of genuine precognition in this very thread that is somewhat plausible within the fringe of physics (though is looking less likely today than it did when I first heard the idea). No leeway required. If a person follows the scientific method, then they are doing science. I've been arguing that there is a possibility of finding natural explanations for supposed paranormal phenomenon. It would be foolish to dismiss such known natural explanations that we have so far discovered - even if those known natural explanations imply that 'mind reading' is illusory.

How many ways can one say off-topic, and suggest another thread? Conside this yet another one... The nature of just about every concept in physics is unknown - to "common knowledge". When you read "unknown", often the truth will be that we're fairly sure the answer is a combination of A and B, but the exact mix is "unknown". Dark energy is a case in point... Try here to consider that dark matter/energy (whether true or not) has ANY similarity with the question of telepathy is exceptionally naive, betraying a complete ignorance of what leads us to suggest the concepts of dark matter/energy in the first place (physics concepts do not arise in a vacuum.) You have been asked several times - what is "telepathy"?You and Linda are prime examples of what this thread is all about:Cavediver, what is dark energy?
Well, it's almost certainly a type of field.
Really, how does it appear in the action?
Good question - probably a bit like this.Izanagi, what is telepathy?
Well, it's a transfer of thought or ideas between people.
Oh, how does that work?
Good question, it's a type of field.
Really, a field? How does it appear in the action?
Errr, what's an action???Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.

I know what you mean.I firmly believe in science as being rooted in natural phenomenon. For instance, the reason why I accept dark matter/energy is because they can be experimentally verified, or so I've read. String Theory and MWI I am a little more skeptical of since I haven't read anything about evidence that directly supports those theories (although there was an interesting article I happened upon that said M-Theory could explain something about the Quantum-Critical State, which suggests to me that M-Theory might be falsifiable in the future). And I am very skeptical of Sheldrake's explanation of morphic fields, because its vague and unfalsifiable..That said, if there is evidence for telepathy, then I think the phenomenon itself should be looked into and naturalistic explanations conceived.

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It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
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You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

Leeway meaning there shouldn't be immediate dismissal. The science should be considered on its merits. Then I'm glad we're arguing over the same... thing? I was pretty sure that was my argument too...

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It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
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You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole

He does. Lots of them. And full of pseudoscientific bullshit that impresses the public by telling them what they want to hear in mystical technobabble they are too: A new Science of LifeThe Presence of the Past: Morphic Resonance and the Habits of NatureDogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming HomeThe Sense of Being Stared AtSeven Experiments That Could Change The WorldHis whole thing seems to be to take science to the masses by making people think that their anecdotes and wishful thinking are as valid as the closed minded experiments conducted by the biased scientific elite. His books and internet "research" are prime examples of this thinking.In effect a million claims of telepthic dogs is worth more than a single double blind randomised trial. I mean that many people cannot be deluded or wrong can they? How dare scientists dismiss this overwhelming pool of evidence just to sustain their empire of exclusivity and knowledge.You might as well ask people if their babies are cute as ask people to objectively assess whether or not their pets are "special".

I appreciate the link.In the future I hope you will refrain from insulting me for what you perceive to be gross misinformation on my part. You know the nature of the web and understand that most of what we get comes from the web. I especially can't go to my local bookstore and buy books on the subject as the books would likely be in another language.I understand the point of trying not to be off-topic. But if I have said anything that offends what you know, let me know in a respectful manner. I am not the creationists you normally argue with. I have no problems with learning new information. And like most humans, I respond well to civility.

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It's just some things you never get over. That's just the way it is. You go on through... best as you can. - Matthew Scott
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Marge, just about everything is a sin. (holds up a Bible) Y'ever sat down and read this thing? Technically we're not supposed to go to the bathroom. - Reverend Lovejoy
----------------------------------------
You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. - Marcus Cole