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Author Topic:   Adding information to the genome.
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


(1)
Message 136 of 280 (534135)
11-05-2009 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Kaichos Man
11-05-2009 6:41 AM


Re: Gene networks in development
Modification-of-function would be more appropriate.
...
I was talking more about the "compensatory effect" needed for simultaneously growing the dentary while shrinking the malleus and incus. The fact that modification of Dlx5/6 resulted in upregulation of some genes and downregulation of others suggests that this is possible.
...
I'm suggesting that the mammalian jaw may be the result of mutational modification of Dlx5 and Dlx6
I'd say that quite a few other modifications would be required for the modern state but clearly modifications of Dlx5 and
Dlx6, or their downstream targets have been important.
Another thing I'd suggest is that these modifications need not be in the actual coding regions of the genes themselves but rather in the regulatory regions which determine where the genes will be expressed. There is a familial case where loss of an enhancer element common to Dlx5 and Dlx6 led to a failure of the inner ear to develop properly (Brown et al., 2009).
From what you've said in this post I'd just like to welcome you to the evolutionary side in this debate
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Kaichos Man, posted 11-05-2009 6:41 AM Kaichos Man has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Kaichos Man, posted 11-06-2009 7:35 AM Wounded King has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 137 of 280 (534146)
11-05-2009 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Kaichos Man
11-05-2009 6:10 AM


Re: Lactose added to genome is added information
The Kimura quote, the Dawkins weasel program, and the means of genetic control over development and metabolism are three examples where you've repeated the same errors over and over again. We're still explaining the same things to you now as a month ago. Disagreeing with our explanations is fine, but there seems to be no hint of comprehension because you continue to repeat the exact same errors with no discernible modification.
Debates aren't won by failing to be convinced through a campaign of uncomprehension. They're won by grasping your opponents arguments and composing effective rebuttals.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Kaichos Man, posted 11-05-2009 6:10 AM Kaichos Man has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Kaichos Man, posted 11-06-2009 8:13 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 159 by Kaichos Man, posted 11-06-2009 8:30 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 160 by Kaichos Man, posted 11-06-2009 8:31 AM Percy has replied

  
Trae
Member (Idle past 4306 days)
Posts: 442
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 06-18-2004


(1)
Message 138 of 280 (534163)
11-05-2009 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Huntard
10-29-2009 1:34 PM


Re: Lactose added to genome is added information
quote:
Very well. Ralians.
I wonder if some Scientologists and some subsection of Buddhists wouldn't also apply here?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Huntard, posted 10-29-2009 1:34 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Huntard, posted 11-05-2009 1:01 PM Trae has seen this message but not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 139 of 280 (534165)
11-05-2009 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Trae
11-05-2009 12:50 PM


Re: Lactose added to genome is added information
Trae writes:
I wonder if some Scientologists and some subsection of Buddhists wouldn't also apply here?
They probably would. Though I don't think Scientologists have problems with evolution. At east, I haven't heard they do.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Trae, posted 11-05-2009 12:50 PM Trae has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by jacortina, posted 11-05-2009 3:28 PM Huntard has replied

  
jacortina
Member (Idle past 5084 days)
Posts: 64
Joined: 08-07-2009


(1)
Message 140 of 280 (534187)
11-05-2009 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Huntard
11-05-2009 1:01 PM


A Message from Xenu
They probably would. Though I don't think Scientologists have problems with evolution. At east, I haven't heard they do.
The official (ie 'gospel') view from L. Ron (though actually revealed by his son when doped to the max) was that man is descended from seaweed through jellyfish through clams through sloths through apes.
There's even a Wiki (with more of their 'sacred secrets'):
Scientology: A History of Man - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Huntard, posted 11-05-2009 1:01 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Huntard, posted 11-05-2009 3:30 PM jacortina has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 141 of 280 (534188)
11-05-2009 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by jacortina
11-05-2009 3:28 PM


Re: A Message from Xenu
Thank you galactic lord for confirming my suspicions. They say evolution happened. It's completely wrong in how it went, but still, it's some sort of evolution.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by jacortina, posted 11-05-2009 3:28 PM jacortina has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by subbie, posted 11-05-2009 3:50 PM Huntard has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 142 of 280 (534190)
11-05-2009 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Huntard
11-05-2009 3:30 PM


Re: A Message from Xenu
Yeah, but I didn't think Elroners believed in gods....

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Huntard, posted 11-05-2009 3:30 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Huntard, posted 11-05-2009 4:23 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 143 of 280 (534193)
11-05-2009 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by subbie
11-05-2009 3:50 PM


Re: A Message from Xenu
subbie writes:
Yeah, but I didn't think Elroners believed in gods....
But Kaichos man's challenge was to name one (yes, one) atheist who doesn't accept the theory of evolution. Apparently, Scientologists accept some form of evolution, even if they are completely wrong about it. Ralians, however, are both atheists and reject evolution.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by subbie, posted 11-05-2009 3:50 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 144 of 280 (534196)
11-05-2009 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Kaichos Man
11-05-2009 6:10 AM


Re: Lactose added to genome is added information
Percy, it's not a request, it's an explanation. You accused me of "playing dumb" ...
It's worse then that. You're not "playing dumb", you're being willfully dumb.
Consider, for example, all the nonsense you've spewed out about Kimura. You could have stopped all this nonsense by reading what Kimura wrote. It's not some esoteric secret, his writings are out there, they are publicly available. You could read them.
And then you would know something about this subject about which you keep puking up garbage on our shoes.
But you choose not to do so. You prefer to talk crap about some subject that you could easily learn about, such that you could stop talking crap about it. But you choose not to do so. You prefer to be ignorant of what Kimura wrote, because your gross drooling ignorance of what he wrote allows you to go on talking crap about it.
This is creationism in a nutshell. So long as you can keep on being totally ignorant about the subject that you're discussing, then your conscience allows you to go on talking crap about it. If you never look at reality, then you need never admit even to yourself that what you're saying is a lie.
But your opponents have looked at reality. We're not afraid. This is why we find your falsehoods so utterly contemptible. For example, I have read what Kimura wrote. Unlike grovelling creationist halfwits, I am not afraid to read what he actually said. This is why I think that you're stupid at best and a liar at worst.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Kaichos Man, posted 11-05-2009 6:10 AM Kaichos Man has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Coyote, posted 11-05-2009 5:47 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 145 of 280 (534202)
11-05-2009 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Dr Adequate
11-05-2009 4:54 PM


Willfully...
I think "willfully ignorant" would be a better term than any that you used.
But you are correct that creationists must strive to remain ignorant of the facts, because the facts don't corroborate their beliefs. They have no choice because they can't accept those facts.
That has led to the whole field of creation "science," which seeks to shoehorn those beliefs into some semblance of scientific language in order to allow creationists to continue to believe that science corroborates their beliefs when the exact opposite is more often the case.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-05-2009 4:54 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by LucyTheApe, posted 11-06-2009 4:05 AM Coyote has not replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 280 (534229)
11-06-2009 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by Coyote
11-05-2009 5:47 PM


Re: Willfully...
That has led to the whole field of #%$&%%## "science," which seeks to shoehorn those beliefs into some semblance of scientific language in order to allow #%$&%%##s to continue to believe that science corroborates their beliefs when the exact opposite is more often the case.

There no doubt exist natural laws, but once this fine reason of ours was corrupted, it corrupted everything.
blz paskal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Coyote, posted 11-05-2009 5:47 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Huntard, posted 11-06-2009 4:30 AM LucyTheApe has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 147 of 280 (534230)
11-06-2009 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by LucyTheApe
11-06-2009 4:05 AM


Re: Willfully...
LucyTheApe writes:
That has led to the whole field of #%$&%%## "science," which seeks to shoehorn those beliefs into some semblance of scientific language in order to allow #%$&%%##s to continue to believe that science corroborates their beliefs when the exact opposite is more often the case.
Yes, creation and creationist, that's what Coyote said. No need to repeat that. And creationism isn't a bad word, no need to censor it....

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by LucyTheApe, posted 11-06-2009 4:05 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by LucyTheApe, posted 11-06-2009 5:29 AM Huntard has replied

  
LucyTheApe
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 280 (534234)
11-06-2009 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Huntard
11-06-2009 4:30 AM


Re: Willfully...
Huntard writes:
Yes, creation and creationist, that's what Coyote said. No need to repeat that. And creationism isn't a bad word, no need to censor it....
Huntard, do you believe that information systems evolve solely as a natural process, or do you know they do?
Does energy and matter create themselves purely as natural process? Is that what you believe or do you know it to be the case?
Can you show me how rocks turned into humans, or is that just a belief?
How strong is your belief in science, will you still believe tomorrow?
Do you believe that what you believe is a belief?

There no doubt exist natural laws, but once this fine reason of ours was corrupted, it corrupted everything.
blz paskal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Huntard, posted 11-06-2009 4:30 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Huntard, posted 11-06-2009 6:07 AM LucyTheApe has replied
 Message 150 by Percy, posted 11-06-2009 7:26 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 149 of 280 (534240)
11-06-2009 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by LucyTheApe
11-06-2009 5:29 AM


Re: Willfully...
Huntard, do you believe that information systems evolve solely as a natural process, or do you know they do?
they evolve solely by natural processes, simply because if something evolves, it is a natural process. I have not seen any information system come about without anything natural either.
Does energy and matter create themselves purely as natural process?
What has that got to do with anything? And yes, they do. Energy turns into matter and matter into energy all by itself.
Is that what you believe or do you know it to be the case?
So far all evidence points to the fact that it does.
Can you show me how rocks turned into humans, or is that just a belief?
If that is what you think happened, then yes, that is a belief. An erroneous one at that.
How strong is your belief in science, will you still believe tomorrow?
I don't believe in science. It has convinced me of it's useful and accurate nature.
Do you believe that what you believe is a belief?
Yes. Beliefs are beliefs. I don't hold too many of them though.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by LucyTheApe, posted 11-06-2009 5:29 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by LucyTheApe, posted 11-06-2009 7:28 AM Huntard has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 150 of 280 (534244)
11-06-2009 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by LucyTheApe
11-06-2009 5:29 AM


Re: Willfully...
Hi LucyTheApe,
Science means having evidence for what you believe. Religion means having faith for what you believe. In this thread we're talking about what the evidence says about how information is added to the genome.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by LucyTheApe, posted 11-06-2009 5:29 AM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
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