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Author Topic:   How do I deal with a creationist family member?
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(2)
Message 46 of 86 (534226)
11-06-2009 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Buzsaw
11-05-2009 11:10 PM


3. LOL. They surely did work better. The high rate of divorce, single parent homes and disfunctional families in our times attests to that. The OP of this thread, having no satisfactory solution also attests to the blessings of Biblical family units.
And yet, the divorce rate among conservative Christians, the more biblical ones, is significantly higher than in the general population and much higher than among atheists and agnostics, who tend to be significantly less biblical. As a conservative Christian friend who had read read Neil Clark Warren's books told me, the significantly higher divorce rate among evangelicals is what prompted Warren to found eHarmony.com and was undoubtedly what had motivated Focus on the Family to promote it. At two local megachurches, a large percentage of their membership is single, mostly divorced, and the churches' highly biblical leadership (Baptist) don't know what to do with their singles.
Also, "til death do you part" was a lot easier to do when people did live as long and remain as active as we do now. Now we have growing numbers of women approaching and in their 50's dumping their husbands and starting over. In the "good old days", he would have just died by then from having worked himself to death (or from having fallen victim to problems that can now be treated by abdominal or thoratic surgery, such as colon perforation from diverticulitus -- I'm 58 and that just happened to me nearly 5 months ago; needless to say, I would have died from peritonitis). Or she would have been worked to death (housework used to be incredibly labor-intensive; just hauling water to the house consumed hours of a child's day, every day). It wasn't your illusion of their being so much more biblical that kept them together; they knew that if they waited long enough their spouse would die on them and that they didn't have that long to wait.
To keep a marriage together takes work and the desire of both parties to keep the marriage together. The more biblical types think (because that's what they're taught to think) that the Bible will magically keep them together. Atheists know that they have to actually try, to make an actual effort. Could be one reason why atheist marriages do so much better than biblical Christian marriages.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Buzsaw, posted 11-05-2009 11:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 86 (534306)
11-06-2009 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by hooah212002
11-05-2009 11:27 PM


Re: Leadership Role
hooah writes:
1. You are a pompous ass.
1. It is not pompousness on my part to know and understand that when you have two presiding authorities, i.e. presidents in any human organization it cannot function without bickering and contention. There needs to be a final decision by the leader when agreement on an issue cannot be resolved as is the case with any cultural unit.
2. It is a sign of ignorance on your part and not pompousness on my part to understand and advocate what the vast majority of human cultures since the recording of history have practiced relative to the male leadership role in the family unit.
hooah writes:
2. There is this thing called equality.....and teamwork. There doesn't always ave to be a "leader".
Who's not advocating teamwork? Certainly not me. I thought I made that clear. All corporations government entities and other organizations apply teamwork. That does not mean that all on the team are presidents. Get it?
hooah writes:
3. Don't try to assume a damn thing about my family and what you think it attests to.
I'm not assuming anything. By now in this thread, we all know what has been discussed with you relative to your family. It was you who chose to share the information, requesting suggestions as to how to resolve your problems.
Instead of appreciation you have personally attacked my integrity for sharing what has worked for me and for so many of the folks I've known over the past 74 years of my life. I'm not shoving anything down your throat. I'm just a bum sharing with another bum where I found bread.
hooah writes:
The bible means fuck all to me. I posed a question about ONE single aspect of my relationship with my girlfriend. The world would be a better place without biblical proselytization and christians chastizing people that believe something different than they do.
Whether the Bible means anything to you is irrevelant. It happens to agree with what has been observed over the millenia relative to equality of authority, and leadership in human cultures.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Add response.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by hooah212002, posted 11-05-2009 11:27 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 6:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 48 of 86 (534311)
11-06-2009 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
11-06-2009 6:08 PM


Re: Leadership Role
1. It is not pompousness on my part to know and understand that when you have two presiding authorities, i.e. presidents in any human organization it cannot function without bickering and contention. There needs to be a final decision by the leader when agreement on an issue cannot be resolved as is the case with any cultural unit.
2. It is a sign of ignorance on your part and not pompousness on my part to understand and advocate what the vast majority of human cultures since the recording of history have practiced relative to the male leadership role in the family unit.
Welcome to the 21st century! I know you are new here, so we will allow an adjustment period. Failure to eventually comply with modern viewpoints will surely end up with severe flames. Enjoy your stay!
I'm not assuming anything. By now in this thread, we all know what has been discussed with you relative to your family. It was you who chose to share the information, requesting suggestions as to how to resolve your problems.
Feel free to re-read the title of my thread and my OP. I have ONE question about ONE aspect/facet of the dealings with this other person. I did not post seeking dr. Love Guru's faith healing and spiritual guidance, so stop preaching, it's getting nowhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 11-06-2009 6:08 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Rahvin, posted 11-06-2009 7:12 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 11-06-2009 9:32 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


(1)
Message 49 of 86 (534312)
11-06-2009 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by hooah212002
11-06-2009 6:51 PM


Re: Leadership Role
Welcome to the 21st century! I know you are new here, so we will allow an adjustment period. Failure to eventually comply with modern viewpoints will surely end up with severe flames. Enjoy your stay!
Buz honestly thinks that the family structures of teh past were superior to equal partnerships, and that lifelong marriage is superior to the possibility of divorce regardless of the reasons.
You aren't going to get anywhere with him. Frankly, I'd just ignore him. He's just an old man waxing about the "good old days" when those uppity women would "happily" take care of all of teh housework, raise the kids, perform "wifely duties" on demand, and have dinner ready when he gets home.
Doesn't matter what the women actually want.
Turns out oppressive societies are pretty nice as long as you aren't the group being oppressed. Who knew?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 6:51 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by subbie, posted 11-06-2009 7:22 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 50 of 86 (534316)
11-06-2009 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Rahvin
11-06-2009 7:12 PM


Buz's unintentional humor
Of course, the funny thing about Buz's neanderthal-like suggestion is that, if followed, it would result in hooah simply requiring his significant other to accept the validity of the ToE.
Talk about being on the horns of a dilemma!

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Rahvin, posted 11-06-2009 7:12 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 8:13 PM subbie has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 51 of 86 (534319)
11-06-2009 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by subbie
11-06-2009 7:22 PM


Re: Buz's unintentional humor
Of course, the funny thing about Buz's neanderthal-like suggestion is that, if followed, it would result in hooah simply requiring his significant other to accept the validity of the ToE.
Talk about being on the horns of a dilemma!
I was thinking the same thing. My girlfriend is as strong minded as they come. If Buz were to say any of this shit to her, she would knock him the fuck out (she's one tough broad).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by subbie, posted 11-06-2009 7:22 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by subbie, posted 11-06-2009 8:16 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 52 of 86 (534321)
11-06-2009 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by hooah212002
11-06-2009 8:13 PM


Re: Buz's unintentional humor
If Buz were to say any of this shit to her, she would knock him the fuck out (she's one tough broad).
If you can arrange that, I'd buy tickets.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 8:13 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 53 of 86 (534328)
11-06-2009 9:07 PM


Compromise too much too ask?
One thing I have noticed from the obvious christian posters, is that christians are unwavering in their ability to compromise. I see this as a serious flaw in their system. How can you be so ignorant to the feelings of other people, and at the same time say atheists or "evolutionists" have no morals? Do you care that little for your fellow man?
I don't believe a word the bible says. however, IF jesus was a real person, the things he teaches ARE good ideals to strive to live by. IMO, he was a peace loving hippy. If more of the hardcore religious types were just a little bit accepting of other views,as the rest of the world has been with christianity, we would all be better off. keep your beliefs private, and I will do the same.

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Buzsaw, posted 11-06-2009 9:58 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 86 (534330)
11-06-2009 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by hooah212002
11-06-2009 6:51 PM


Re: Leadership Role
LOL. Thanks for the welcome (I guess) but likely you were a teanager when I came in '03, so boot camp has long since past for me at EvC, heading towards 7000 messages in all. I deactivated my account for a few months and reactivated it a while back.
I've been in the trenches as a Biblical creationist for a number of years dealing with all kinds of counterparts, some smart asses (like ones who load up my message ratings indiscriminately with 1's) and others quite congenial and fair minded debaters.
hooah writes:
Feel free to re-read the title of my thread and my OP. I have ONE question about ONE aspect/facet of the dealings with this other person. I did not post seeking dr. Love Guru's faith healing and spiritual guidance, so stop preaching, it's getting nowhere.
Who's preaching? Obviously you find it convenient to ignore the fact that what I have advocated has worked for family units over the millennia, relative to situations such as yours. Now people like you with problems having no solutions choose to wave off what has worked, for the most part as old fashioned when, in fact, in spite of it's flaws, it had it's merits.
BTW, the ole man is not so wimpy milk toast as to let any woman toss him out of his house.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 6:51 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 9:56 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 55 of 86 (534331)
11-06-2009 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
11-06-2009 9:32 PM


Re: Leadership Role
LOL. Thanks for the welcome (I guess) but likely you were a teanager when I came in '03, so boot camp has long since past for me at EvC, heading towards 7000 messages in all. I deactivated my account for a few months and reactivated it a while back.
I meant welcome to the 21st century.........
Who's preaching? Obviously you find it convenient to ignore the fact that what I have advocated has worked for family units over the millennia, relative to situations such as yours. Now people like you with problems having no solutions choose to wave off what has worked, for the most part as old fashioned when, in fact, in spite of it's flaws, it had it's merits.
how many women agree with this? I don't mean weak, subserviant christian women either. I have no respect for anyone who can't stand up for themselves and what they believe in.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 11-06-2009 9:32 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 11-06-2009 10:05 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 86 (534333)
11-06-2009 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by hooah212002
11-06-2009 9:07 PM


Re: Compromise too much too ask?
hooah writes:
One thing I have noticed from the obvious christian posters, is that christians are unwavering in their ability to compromise.
You have a lot to learn about Biblically principled Christians, Hooah, who do plenty of compromising, giving and taking in a non-provacative manner, often honoring the other's wishes over their own.
It's called, the fruit of the Holy Spirit, i.e. love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.
hooah writes:
I see this as a serious flaw in their system. How can you be so ignorant to the feelings of other people, and at the same time say atheists or "evolutionists" have no morals? Do you care that little for your fellow man?
Flaws? It appears that your system has some flaws as well. LOL.
Now you're digressing. I have some morally good evolutionist and athiestic minded friends and aquaintences.
hooah writes:
I don't believe a word the bible says. however, IF jesus was a real person, the things he teaches ARE good ideals to strive to live by. IMO, he was a peace loving hippy. If more of the hardcore religious types were just a little bit accepting of other views,as the rest of the world has been with christianity, we would all be better off. keep your beliefs private, and I will do the same.
1. Didn't I say the same, that Biblical principles and not necessarily actions of professing Christians are what works?
2. This is a public board open to all registered members. The moderators and Forum Guidelines will determine what is not to be aired, thank you.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 9:07 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 10:16 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 86 (534334)
11-06-2009 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by hooah212002
11-06-2009 9:56 PM


Re: Leadership Role
hooah writes:
I have no respect for anyone who can't stand up for themselves and what they believe in.
Well then, learn to live at peace with your woman relative to the kids and stop complaing about her stubborn stance.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 9:56 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by hooah212002, posted 11-06-2009 10:19 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 58 of 86 (534335)
11-06-2009 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Buzsaw
11-06-2009 9:58 PM


Re: Compromise too much too ask?
1. Didn't I say the same, that Biblical principles and not necessarily actions of professing Christians are what works?
and where, exactly, did jesus say that women are scum and should stfu and do what men say? Because that's basically what you are saying.
2. This is a public board open to all registered members. The moderators and Forum Guidelines will determine what is not to be aired, thank you.
It's called reading comprehension. You should try it. that statement was NOT directed at you, but to religion IN GENERAL. I expect religious views to be touted here. That's pretty much half the point of this board.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Buzsaw, posted 11-06-2009 9:58 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 59 of 86 (534336)
11-06-2009 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Buzsaw
11-06-2009 10:05 PM


Re: Leadership Role
Well then, learn to live at peace with your woman relative to the kids and stop complaing about her stubborn stance.
How's that cognitive dissonance taste, buz? Does it go well with self righteousness and male chauvinism? It must, because you are full of all 3.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Buzsaw, posted 11-06-2009 10:05 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 60 of 86 (534355)
11-07-2009 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by hooah212002
11-05-2009 6:59 PM


The thing is, that would bring yet another child into this world with a broken family. Our oldest, her daughter, is from her previous relationship. The middle, my son, is from my previous marriage. The youngest, is ours together. We want to at least give one of them a childhood with both parents.
I agree, with both yours and Rahvin's posts.
Having given this a few days before replying, and, also the fact that I was having a little fun with my first post, I'd like to say this:
You kinda knew what you were getting into, right? I mean, she didn't keep any of this a secret and sprung it on you recently, right? You knew she was Christian and knew the mom?
If you did, then there isn't much you can do.
You can try to present the "looks great on paper" argument that Rahvin suggested; try to make nice, explain it all in detail, show her that you will not poison her children with atheism, etc... but at the end of the day, if she says "na, I still want it my way" where do you go from there?
Reality is, when shit don't work it don't work. When two completely different ideologies want to instill their PoV's into one thing, sadly the only thing that suffers is that thing.
So, IMHO, if your main concern is the kids, then I'd suggest only teaching them when she gives you the ok. If not, you'll be fighting her the entire time and the kids will carry the burden of two parents who have conflicting ideologies.
OR, like Buz seems to be suggesting, just pop her in the mouth and tell her to make you a sandwich, while you teach the kids about natural selection.
- Oni
On the real, good luck.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by hooah212002, posted 11-05-2009 6:59 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by hooah212002, posted 11-07-2009 3:21 AM onifre has not replied

  
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