Spiritual Death is Not Biblical

Hi jaywill, You can search spiritual death in 14 different Bibles HereThose two words do not appear together in any of them.So what are you talking about?I am going to assume you are talking about what happened to the man in the garden when he willfully chose to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.As a result:The first thing that happened was that he was separated from God.
The second thing that happened was he died a physical death.
As you know I believe both of these happened the same day he ate the fruit.There is no such thing as spiritual death as the spirit can not die.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, The phrase = "spiritual death".You are probably not going to get a clear answer of any kind as there is no such thing as spiritual death.The spirit of man can not die, as it is eternal.The first time I heard of spiritual death it was someone trying to explain that since the man did not die when he ate the forbidden fruit he must have been separated from God in spiritual death.A bunch of baloney as far as I am concerned or have ever been since I was 10 years old.You make a big deal about the plain text.Do you believe the plain text? Can you determine from the plain text when the beginning was? The plain text says this is the generations/history of the heaven and the earth in the DAY they were created. Again when was that?Therefore in the day the heaven and the earth was created the following also took place as it is in the generations/history of that day: The plain text says God formed man from the dust of the ground.God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Nothing said about spirit.Man became a living soul. The Hebrew word nephesh translated soul here means, 1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion.There is nothing here about spirit. There is no way to determine from the plain text if this man had a spirit or not. There is no way to determine from the plain text when this man was formed from the dust of the ground.If I was going to venture a guess as to when he was formed I would have to say you can not write a number big enough to be that date, as it was in the beginning.More plain text. God planted a garden in paradise (Eden=pleasure).
He placed the perfect man He had formed in this perfect place. The man was given a job, to dress and keep the garden. The plain text says the man would die the day he ate of the specific tree God pointed out to him. The woman was deceived but the man was not deceived. But many say he was with her. The translators says that but the plain text does not say that. The plain text says she gave to the man, he ate.God had given the man a commandment not to eat the fruit but God did not give the commandment to the woman.But man disobeyed a direct order of God with the following results:
After man disobeyed, God talked to the man but man was not in God's physical presence.
God kicked mankind out of His paradise, a place where everything was perfect.The question is, how does mankind get restored to the condition that the man was in before he disobeyed God?That is what is necessary to get back in paradise.Now the plain truth is he died that day or God lied.There has nothing been mentioned about this man having a spirit in the plain text.Therefore the death had to be physical death.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, Where do you get mercy from the plain text?Do you believe he died because he ate the fruit?Or did he die because he disobeyed God by eating the fruit?I believe he died because he disobeyed God and ate the fruit. God could have said cut down the tree, dig a hole, or any of another thousand things and it would have been the same.The man disobey a direct order from God for which the punishment was death.He died or God lied.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, How do you make that broadjump from breath to spirit?They are not the same thing.The only creature on the face of this planet that has a spirit is made in the image/likeness of God.The man and woman created in Genesis 1:27 is such a creature as they were created in the image/likeness of God.The plain text does not even say the man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 was made in the image/likeness of God. Don't worry about contradicting me. There can be no debate if everyone agrees.Then there would be no need for me to study.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Peg you never cease to amaze me. Where does this verse say anything about God proceeding to blow into the mans nostrils the breath (ru'ach) of life"?There is no verse in the Bible that says that.Genesis 2:7 is the only place God came close but the word is not (ru'ach). 5301 naphach 1)to breathe
5397 nĕshamah 1) breath
5315 nephesh 1) soul, self, life, creature, person, I will agree totally and competely with this statement.But when you learn a little Greek you won't agree with it.I don't know who you are following in Greek but they don't know an Alpha from a Beta. 4151 pneuma 1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son.Since God made mankind in His image/likeness this verse is talking about the coeternal spirit God gave mankind in Genesis 1:27 in the process of creating mankind a living being with a mind, body and spirit.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, The words used in Genesis 2:7 has nothing to do with modern mankind.
They only have to do with the man formed from the dust of the ground.They have absolutuly nothing to do with a spirit of any kind that I can find. This man existed in the beginning not in the last 7,000 or so years. I have no idea when the beginning was but that is when he existed. As I told PD I don't believe you could write a number big enough to tell when the beginning was, if we could somehow measure the time from then until now.The man formed from the dust of the ground in Genesis 2:7 is not the man that was created in Genesis 1:27. That man was created in the image/likeness of God.God from the word 'elohiym strong's #430 meaning 1) (plural) a) rulers, judges b) divine ones.This is where the trinity comes from. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.God the Father = all knowledge, mind.
God the Son = Flesh body.
God the Holy Spirit = Spirit
This is simply three different manifestations of one God.The man in Genesis 1:27 was created in like manner.The man in Genesis 2:7 was formed from the dust of the ground and God breathed the breath of life into that form and it became a living soul (being),There is nothing in the plain text about the man in Genesis 2:7 having a spirit of any kind. Therefore to teach he suffered a spiritual death is false.If God is eternal then the man created in Genesis 1:27 and all his descendents are eternal beings and will spend eternity somewhere as they can not become none existent.The physical body we have is not designed to last for eternity therefore it must cease to exist and that is the reason there must be a resurrection in which we receive a physical body that can last for eternity. That body will be like the one Jesus had after His resurrection.I repeat again there is no such thing as spiritual death.When most people are talking about spiritual death they are referring to separation from God. Thus a person who has not been born again would be refered to as being spiritually dead as they are separated from God.Everyone who is born and reached the point that the man in the garden did when he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is separated from God by that man's disobedience.That is the reason John 3:18 says "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." Your Greek is lousy.I gave you the definition of pneuma and strong's # which you quoted in the message I am replying too. pneuma is translated wind in John 3:8 but a literal translation of the Greek does not justify that usage. A literal translation would be: " the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'"The only place a Greek word is translated breath in the NT is found in Acts 17:25. The Greek word pnoē Strong's #4157 meaning 1) breath, breath of life.The Greek word anemos Strong's #417 1) wind, a violent agitation and stream of air, Is translated wind in several places. Between what lines of what I said are you reading that in?4151 pneuma has always been the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son.
7307 ruwach has always been wind or breath.
5301 naphach has always been to breathe.
5397 nĕshamah has always been breath.
5315 nephesh has always been soul, self, life, creature, person,God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, What is the transliteration of the Hebrew word that means man or mankind? It is strong's #H120. For any spirit to be an eternal spirit it has to come from God.God created man and gave him an eternal spirit.
God made satan and gave him an eternal spirit.
God allowed satan to give the beast an eternal spirit.Why would I have a problem with the devil giving an eternal spirit to the image of the beast?If the beast did not have an eternal spirit, what good would it do for it to be cast into the lake of fire? The only way the beast could be tormented day and night for ever and ever would require the beast to be a physical living eternal spirit.Here is a literal translation of Rev 13:15
"and there was given to it to give a spirit to the image of the beast, that also the image of the beast may speak, and [that] it may cause as many as shall not bow before the image of the beast, that they may be killed." What is the problem with a piece of wood or a dumb stone not having a spirit of any kind?Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Jazzns, By comparing the texts of the Elephantine Papyri to the texts of Daniel, scholars have concluded that the textual style of Daniel places the book within the era of the 5th century BCE.The Egyptian document known as the Elephantine Papyri was written between 495 BC and 402.I know naturalist like to claim the 165 BC date because they like to disprove Daniel's prophecy.Even if it was written in 165BC it still prophecied the death of the Messiah and the destruction of Jerusalem over 200 years prior to the destruction.God Bless, Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, The Hebrew word for man is transliterated adam. The primary definition of the original Hebrew word is: From Strongs #H120.1) man, mankinda) man, human beingb) man, mankindThat means you are an Adam.
That means I am an adam. God created Adam male and female in His image. If Adam is any man or woman who has ever lived on the face of the earth, why do you keep refering to a particular man as Adam?It doesn't.God = Jehovah = "the existing One" Thus God is an eternal Spiritual being.In Genesis 1:26 God said let us make man in our image, after our likeness.We are made in the image/likeness of God. Therefore if God is the "eternal existing one" then we have an eternal spirit.You do believe that God is eternal don't you? Do I have to prove Satan is a spirit? Since Satan is a spirit and he will be tormented day and night forever and ever in the lake of fire he has to be eternal.
Therefore I conclude he is an eternal spirit. The inanimate image object that Satan gave life, spirit (pneuma) to that was then able to kill people who did not bow and worship the image.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill, I don't have to think because John tell's me himself. Everyone who has not been born again is already dead as they are under the penalty of the second death. John declares those who have not believed ( 1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in a) of the thing believed 1. to credit, have confidence) the only begotten Son of God is CONDEMNED ALREADY. Therefore he is dead.I have two questions for you and I will answer both. If you disagree you can give your answer.1) Will the physical body we have die? Yes, Thus we have physical death.2) Will a Spirit die? No all spirits are eternal. Thus there can be no spiritual death.There can be and is the second death which is eternal separation from God in a lake of fire where those there are tormented for eternity. Those who have been born again are not now or ever will be under the penalty of the second death. Glory to God.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Iblis, Jesus was at the same place the thief that died on the cross beside Him. For He told him "today shalt thou be with me in paradise".

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Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

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It happened to be the same place Abraham was at that the rich man in hell called out to to let Lazraus fetch a drop of water to cool his parched tongue.

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Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

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Jesus announced the Messiah has come and died for the sins of the world.He set the captive free as when He ascended to heaven he took those who had been in paradise with Him.

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Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

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Thus came to pass. Glory to God all those who are born again are passed from death unto life eternal through Jesus Christ.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill, A physical death is the ceasing of that body to exist.Spiritual death would be the ceasing of that spirit to exist.Eternal separation from God in the lake of fire is called the second death.Everyone who has not been born again possesses this second death in the present and anytime that ever comes to be present. They are condemned already John 3:18Nowhere in the Bible is this second death refereed to as spiritual death. I do know that most preachers refer to it as spiritual death.
I don't, simply because that infers the spirit will be annihilated. Revelation 2:8 - 2:11 is addressed to the messenger of the church in Smyrna.Verse 10 tells of the devil casting some into prison, being tried and there would be tribulation and for them to remain faithful unto death.Verse 11 says the one who is victorious will not be hurt of the second death.I have no problem with that.But your statement "However, a Christian may be "hurt" of the second death (Revelation 2:11) temporarily in some particular cases."Is not supported by this text as it does not read:Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that is not victorious shall be hurt of the second death temporally. John simply says if a person claims to be following Christ and do not love the brethren he is a liar and has never been born again. In the 8th chapter of Romans Paul makes it clear that the born again person is not condemned just as John put forth in John 3:18. Romans 8:1 says:

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[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

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Paul declares those who are born again do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit.Jesus declared the same thing in Jhn 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" He can't be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. How can he/she be spiritually dead as their spirit is sealed by the Holy Spirit of God who can commit no sin?

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Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

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You seem to be putting forth that the sacrifice of Calvary is not enough to give a person eternal life. John does not use the concept of spiritual death for any reason, as he simply does not use it at all.As far as John is concerned a person has either passed from death unto life (been born again).ORThat person is condemned already and is dead period never having been made alive by the Holy Spirit of God.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill, Mankind was not invaded or poisoned.Mankind died when the first man disobeyed God and came to know good and evil.This was the exact moment all mankind became condemned to the second death that John talks about in John 3:18:

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He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

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From that moment on Calvary was necessary. No one has ever received eternal life or will ever receive eternal life without the sheading of the blood of Calvary.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi jaywill, Read what I said.I am saying if the second death is a spiritual death then that would mean annhilation.There is no such thing as spiritual death.Therefore all those cast into the lake of fire will be there for eternity suffering as John tells us.There is no such thing as being cast into the lake of fire for a little while.Those who are in the 1st resurrection will not be affected by the second death as it has no power over them.All those who stand before the Great White Throne Judgment will be cast into the lake of fire. I did think about it.Jesus has no control over who is a member of the church.
The church is the one that does the binding and loosing on earth.Jesus does control who is in the family of God. Only those who are born again.Hadn't you heard the church is full of a bunch of hypocrits.I am sorry to say I have to agree, that is true.Everybody that says Lord, Lord is not born again. When I was a babe drinking milk instead of the meat. Like Paul when I was a child I did as a child. When I became a man I put away childish things.Am I perfect? No way just a sinner saved by grace striving every day to let Jesus live through me.There is such a thing as growing up in the Lord. Depends on your definition of a Christian.If you are talking about a born again child of God sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. NO WAY Sure they can be members of a new testament church. In fact they can get the church to the point that God will remove the Brideship from the church.But all this is getting a long way from spiritual death. I enjoy talking about these things. Maybe you should start a thread and we can discuss these things without messing up PD'S thread.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi EMA, Anytime we try to understand God we need to remember what He said:

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Isa 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

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We think in human earthly terms which God does not.God has abilities we can not even dream of.One of those abilities is that He is not bound by time as we are. He exists in an eternal now, seeing the beginning and the end at the same time.As far as He is concerned the Great White Throne Judgment has taken place and all those who did not trust Him have been cast into the lake of fire.The wages of sin is death. Rom 6:23.Sin is disobedience to God.The man formed from the dust of the ground disobeyed God and reaped the wages of death. He was immediately separated from God as the voice of God is what came to him after his sin not God Himself.As far as God was concerned that man was dead in his trespasses and sins.That is the reason the sacrifice was prepared, offered, and accepted before the foundation of the world.That said you are referring to what Jesus said in:

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Mat 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

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Every person that has not been born again of the Holy Spirit is dead though his flesh body is alive.Paul put it this way talking to born again children of God:

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Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

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Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

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The Greek word transliterated syzopoie translated as quickened means to make alive.As far as God is concerned everyone who has not been made alive by the Holy Spirit in the new birth is dead even though his physical body is alive..Thus Jesus told the disciple let the dead bury the dead. In other words you got more important things to do.God and His Work is the most important thing that there is. We are to put God first and that is the lesson Jesus is teaching. Nothing is more important God.As far back as I can remember, more than 60 years I have heard this death refereed to as "spiritual death". Man in this condition is spiritually separated from God but his spirit is not dead just as his physical body is not dead.Since a spirit can not die there is no such thing as "spiritual death".

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Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

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The spirit will return to God who gave it to mankind. In the resurrection that spirit will receive an eternal body. That body and spirit will have the sentence carried out. If the spirit has been born again it will spend eternity with God. If that spirit has not been born again it will spend eternity in the lake of fire.Again spirits do not die.There can be no spiritual death.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."