Has natural selection really been tested and verified?

Hi RAZD, You have 2 populations of finches. One has small beaks the other has large beaks.During the wet times there are more small beak finches.
During the dry times there are more large beak finches.That has nothing to do with evolution.It only has to do with who has the most food. The one that does produces more offspring with a better survival rate. Thus you have more of one than the other.They not evolving anywhere. They are simply oscillating back and forth with the one with the most food having more offspring.So what does this test prove.It proves that the population that gets the most food has the most offspring with the better survival rate.Nothing more.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi RAZD, How can there be one population if there are 14 different species?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi RAZDI hope everything is well on that end of the street. Darwin studied 13 species of finches in the Galapagos.There is an island about 500 miles away that has one species of finches.It is assumed that the 13 species on the Galapagos came from one species over millions of years.But on Cocos Island there is and has been only one species they did not spectate in the same amount of time. Why is that?The study by the Grants referenced by WK, is a study of 4 species.So what do these tests show.They show that the group that gets more food survive and reproduce more offspring.The amount of food they get is determined by the weather.So what evolutionary changes does this oscillating back and forth bring about?Is species still defined as an actually or potentially interbreeding population that does not interbreed with other such populations when there is opportunity to do so? Just checking.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi RAZD, I am still interested in what these tests prove.In wet periods there are softer seeds.Natural selection kicks in so the finches that have small beaks have more food and survive and reproduce better thus increasing in number.During this time natural selection has made it very tough on the finches with the larger beaks as their food supply is reduced. Therefore they do not have as good a survival rate and they diminish in number.Then we have a dry season and we have harder seeds.Natural selection kicks in so the finches that have the larger beaks have more food and survive and reproduce better thus increasing in number.During this time natural selection has made it very tough on the finches that have small beaks as their food supply is reduced. Therefore they do not have as good a survival rate and they diminish in number.From what I can find out this has been going on for millions of years.So what has been accomplished?The only thing these tests prove is that the group that gets the most food survives better than those that have little food. But they all survive. All 13 species.Could you please give me the definition of species again I have gotten confused reading about the species of finches. I asked that question in my last post to you.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Huntard, Neither does "We don't know".So do you have a good explanation of how it happened?God Bless and have a Happy Thanksgiving,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi RAZD,Hope your have had a happy holiday so far and it continues. I was just wondering because in reading about the 4 species of finches in the grant study they were talking about all of them being able to breed and reproduce. I thought evolution was a process that eventually wound up in a different place. Not something that just kept going back and forth from one state ot another.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi RAZD,You quoted wikipedia where it says: This is how I thought you had explained this in another thread.Correct me if I get this wrong.I understand this to say that if you start with one species of finches with small beaks they would develop the large beaks over a period of time.But that is not what the study shows.That is why I was asking my question about what that test showed.It does not show the finches with small beaks developing large beaks from the small beaks, or the opposite way.It shows 14 different species of finches that have different size beaks and during wet times the small beak finches increase in number and the large beak finches decrease in number. In dry times the large beak finches increase in number and the small beak finches decrease in number.Now if that is evolution I am sold.Concerning Darwins finches wikipedia says:Darwin's finches - Wikipedia

quote:

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Darwin's finches (also known as the Galpagos Finches or as Geospizinae) are a group of 14 or 15 species of Passerine birds, now placed in the tanager family rather than the true finch family. They were first collected by Charles Darwin on the Galpagos Islands during the second voyage of the Beagle. Thirteen are found on the Galpagos Islands and one on Cocos Island.

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You can find some interesting information on the finches
Here .God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Dr, But that is not what the study shows.It simply shows in wet times the species that has the small beaks have a better survival rate than those with large beaks.It also shows that the species that has the large beaks survive better in the dry times than those with the small beaks.It does not show the species with the small beaks growing large beaks, and the species with the large beaks growing small beaks.Now when I can take a 100 lb. piney woods hog and breed her with a Duroc breed that averages 400 lb. and get an offspring that averages 200 lb. then breed that offspring to a breed that averages 800 lbs. and get a breed that averages 600 lbs that can survive off less water and food for extended periods of time I call that forced evolution. I did this back in the 50's.That was un natural selection as I was doing the selecting.Now back to the finches. They have been doing this survival of the species that gets the most food for millions of years. Nothing changes the one that gets the most food survives better.Now if those finches could really adapt they would evolve a small beak that could crush the hard seed as easily as the large beaks.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Bolder-dashI haven't answered a post of yours until now so welcome to EvC. As I understand what I read about the finches the ladies are waiting around for a male to come along singing a song that her father sung.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi RAZD, Could you then explain what changes are taking place in the 13 different species of Darwin's finches in response to the wet seasons and the dry seasons?This is put forth as a test of natural selection. It has been cited as proof of natural selection.The study proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the finches that get the most eatable food survive and reproduce better.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."