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Author Topic:   Faith vs Skepticism - Why faith?
onifre
Member (Idle past 2973 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 447 of 533 (536820)
11-25-2009 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 445 by RAZD
11-25-2009 7:52 AM


Re: lack of sufficient information total lack of evidence
Curiously, most people have no problem understanding what the concept god means
Your Gallup Poll did not show this at all.
Your poll shows that people have no problem believing in things that have no defined concept. They have no problem believing in ambiguous terms and meaningless words.
So what we see is that you are avoiding the issue of providing evidence that you say exists by playing word games.
You have yet to define what YOU mean by god. How can we provide evidence against something that is unknown to YOU and I...? And I don't mean unknown as in "we don't know if its there" ... I mean unknown as in "you have no idea what you are asking for evidence against."
Basically, you are asking for evidence to disprove and ambiguous term and a meaningless word.
The only word plays are coming from you.
All we have are concepts of god; if we disprove those, you just make up more concepts. Concepts like "he exists outside the universe," a place that you have no idea of its existence! You just made that place up and claimed a god could be there!
So there is no end to the concepts you can make up, and there is no reason for us to attempt to disprove nonsense like that.
You also say, even if we show you evidence that disproves every single god concept, it still doesn't mean that a god doesn't exist; god could exist independently of the concept.
Well, isn't that just another concept too? A concept of god that places him independent of the concepts?
You see, you guys just keep pulling things out of your ass and keep asking us to disprove it, which is dishonest to say the least.
All god is right now, to ALL of us, is an ambiguous term and a meaningless word - which, many have faith in its existence due to a religious reason.
Others, like you or other diest, have to remain agnostic. You have no choice. And why? Because you've created such a vague and ambiguous term/concept of "god" that your own logic and reasoning plays mind games on you. It places these god(s) convinently in areas where its unknowable if it exists or not, thus it creates an air of possibility. But in reality, it doesn't.
All it shows is the extent to which humans will go to make stuff up just to satisfy their own complex curiosity.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 445 by RAZD, posted 11-25-2009 7:52 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2973 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 470 of 533 (537213)
11-27-2009 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 468 by RAZD
11-27-2009 2:04 PM


And the "coelacanth ace" in the whole of time is still the deist god that clapped the universe into existence in the time before time, said "surprise me," and left it to develop all on its lone.
Can you explain how that concept is grounded in some kind of evidence, and not total speculation on your part void of absolutely any kind evidence?
When the diety clapped, did it clap its "hands"?
When it said "surprise me," who was it talking to and did it speak in English?
Finally, who clapped the diety into existence, or does it not need a first cause?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 468 by RAZD, posted 11-27-2009 2:04 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

onifre
Member (Idle past 2973 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 475 of 533 (537413)
11-28-2009 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by xongsmith
11-28-2009 11:18 AM


Hi xong,
Rrhain writes:
What do you mean by "supernatural"? All you've done is replace one undefined term with another.
xong writes:
Okay then - let's use your term: chocolate sprinkles
Surely you are familiar with what that term means.
I think you miss the point ... no matter what you decide to call it, it's still a meaningless term.
Supernatural, god, outside the universe, before time - these are all words that replace gaps, they mean nothing, and they answer much less.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by xongsmith, posted 11-28-2009 11:18 AM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 478 by xongsmith, posted 11-28-2009 11:59 AM onifre has not replied

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