An inconvenient truth.... or lie?

Hey Buzsaw, since you're interested in this subject, would you like to post specific quotes from these emails so we can discuss them? The quotes you have provided are opinions of anti-global warming people. It's like me saying christians are lying sons of bitches and then people started quoting me as proof that christians are in fact liars.Provide the quotes directly from the emails here and we can discuss about them.

Please don't make me chase you around, Buz.Give us quotes directly from these emails that you think are damning evidence of this supposed massive fraud and we can discuss from there. All you've done so far is post links to opinions. Again, anybody can have an opinion on anything. My opinion is that christians are necessarily liars. This doesn't mean that quoting me will actually prove that christians are in fact liars.PS - It only took half a dozen posts before people got side-tracked. Stop this, people! Let's discuss the real crux of the matter, which is the supposed questionable emails themselves.

sleveque, I'm going to post the same request I did with Buzsaw. Post quotes directly from the emails themselves and we can discuss from there. You can quote faux news' opinions all you want in a gay-hating evangelical baptist church all you want. I don't think it's too much to ask to look directly at the sources of the so-called controversy.

You're the one accusing the entire scientific community of massive fraud. You present the evidence. Show us quotes directly from the emails and discuss about them, not what someone else says about them. Christians are liars. Go google it and see for yourself. See? I can play this game, too.

Ah, but I never accused christians of being liars. I merely used it as an analogy to help you understand where I have a problem with in this issue. You're just pointing to other people who talk about the emails and say "see? it's a massive fraud, he says so..." By this same logic, I can simply say christians are liars and then other people could prove that christians are liars by pointing to my opinion. See the parallel? No, you haven't. You've included links to blogs which link to other blogs which link to other blogs.It's been a long time rule of this forum that we don't debate websites here, let alone blogs.Notice that I haven't actually made any claim regarding this issue. All I have done is ask (not politely) you to give us quotes directly from these emails so we can discuss them. If these emails obviously point to an international plot to commit fraud, it should be easy for you to provide a few of these quotes (in context) directly from the emails and have a field day rubbing them in our faces.Is this such an unreasonable request to make?

Insulting? I merely reflect on a pattern that I have noticed, that the same people who have been bible thumping are the same people who are most outspoken about the exaggerated claims of the supposed international fraud. If these emails indeed show conclusively of an international plot to politicize the global warming, then I would expect it to be very easy to post quotes, in context, directly from the emails themselves, not just links to blogs that prove their claims by linking to yet more blogs.So far, the major news networks have only been able to outright present 2 words that supposedly make these emails controversial. The first was the use of the word "idiots" to describe global warming doubters. While unprofessional, these were personal emails not meant for press release. Heck, I call people idiots, dumbfucks, assholes, and a myriad other names all the time in my personal letters, emails, and conversations with colleagues.The second word major news networks so far seem to like to quote is "trick" when used in regard to interpreting data. This is where I have to point out that journalists aren't scientists. Specialists of any area like to use certain words that mean completely different from what they're saying to describe something. In science, "trick" doesn't mean deception or manipulation of data as the press have been misleadingly presenting to the public. It simply means a different point of view of the data, or a different method to interpreting the data.It's like the use of "hydrogen burning" when describing fusion in the sun. Non-physicists always think "hydrogen burning" means combustion involving hydrogen gas. This is where non-physicists tend to think they're smarter than the physicists themselves and try to correct the physicists when they describe what goes on in the sun as "hydrogen burning".Again, if these emails are so damning evidence of massive international fraud, it should be as easy as turning your hand to post a couple quotes, in context, to show this abominable conspiracy. Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Well, I guess getting Buzsaw to talk directly about the emails is a lost cause. Despite the many times I asked him not to indulge in discussing websites and people's personal blogs, he continues to post people's personal blogs as his proof of the massive international fraud. And notice how he's managed to get people go off topic with this new world order bullshit.Again, if these emails unquestionably prove this massive international fraud by the scientific community, I would expect it very easy for people to discuss directly from the emails themselves, not blogs that point to other blogs that point to other blogs as proof.

Is this a joke or are you seriously this clueless? There is no organization in this world that publishes its emails. In fact, the organization known as my family doesn't publish our emails either. Do you publish your emails?

I've taken the liberty to upload it in my account. Click here to download a rar file of all the emails. After you decompress, all files are in txt format. No more excuses for linking to blogs that link to other blogs that link to yet other blogs for proof of this supposed international fraud.

To further derail this thread, I'm surprised he hasn't mentioned Javier Solana.

Again, are you joking or are you seriously this clueless?(1) Invasion of privacy. How would you like it if your emails are published?(2) Words taken out of context. How would you like it if your words are taken out of context to make you look like a liar?(3) Unethical accusations of the victim to shift the blame from the criminal. This is an especially important one. There have been cases where rape victims are demonized to shift the blame away from the rapist. The real culprit in this affair is the hacker and people like you who are interpreting the victims' words out of context to prove your agenda.(4) Shamelessness. This one is especially for people like you, chimp. Instead of recognizing a crime and invasion of privacy has been committed, you jumped on this opportunity to demonize the scientific community for your own agenda.Again, I really have to ask. Are you just joking around or are you genuinely shameless?Added by edit.I just realized what the problem is. You have a problem with empathizing with others. Before you make your next statement, do yourself a favor and try to ask yourself how you would react to such and such situation. Nobody likes their emails published for the world to see and judge. Nobody likes their property stolen. And certainly, nobody likes to be called a liar based on some words taken out of context. You people seem to have a problem applying the same situation to your own.Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

I'd like to see you try to explain quantum mechanics, electron orbitals, or calculus to a 10 year old. These words of wisdom from old folks like you are great, but... reality...

There is. The problem is trying to convince the conservatives to stop raping and polluting the planet. Allow me to quote your favorite person. The ethic of conservation is the explicit abnegation of man's dominion over the Earth. The lower species are here for our use. God said so: Go forth, be fruitful, multiply, and rape the planet it's yours. That's our job: drilling, mining and stripping. Sweaters are the anti-Biblical view. Big gas-guzzling cars with phones and CD players and wet bars that's the Biblical view. - Ann Coulter They're not paranoid. Remember that it's the GW deniers that caused the uproar first. What were the scientists suppose to do? Just sit on their hands and said nothing? That's the same thing as admitting guilt.Again, put yourself in their shoes. Suppose someone got a hold of your personal email and published it. Suppose someone else completely took your words out of context to make you look like a bigot. Would you just sit around and let the world go on believing you're a bigot son of a bitch or would you try to explain to the public what you really meant? The issue isn't so much as reading the emails as misinterpreting the contents. Global warming is real. But the evidence for it isn't something that ordinary people can understand. Just like Einstein's theory of relativity. The evidence for it is overwhelming. In fact, our GPS system is dependent on it. And yet I often find myself having a hard time explaining to the lay person the evidence that supports the theory.The accusations arising from the emails are preposterous. Yet, if the scientific community isn't careful, the christian right might actually win the public support to bring about the apocalypse a little sooner.Help me understand your mind here. What's the mental block that's keeping you from thinking straight?

Ok, let's put your money where your mouth is. I'm going to ask you the same thing I asked buzsaw. Give us some quotes directly from the emails and we can discuss about them. Don't be like buzsaw and keep posting links to blogs that link to other blogs as references. I don't want to see you posting what other people think. Give us direct quotes from the emails and tell us what you think so we can have a real discussion.PS - Blogs buzsaw linked to are people's opinions, most of which have nothing to do with reality. I'm pretty sure my imagination can do better if you want me to.

Let me be blunt. At this point in the game, there isn't anything we can do about it. Even if tomorrow EMP bombs went off in the atmosphere around the world effectively shutting down everything technologically based, global warming will still continue on its trend. Enough damage has already been done. And at this point in the game, pretty much everything we do, like burning wood in the forest, contributes to GW.