Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
8 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,468 Year: 3,725/9,624 Month: 596/974 Week: 209/276 Day: 49/34 Hour: 0/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   An inconvenient truth.... or lie?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 191 (538234)
12-04-2009 5:33 PM


What has been dubbed as "Climate-Gate" was first sparked when an unknown assailant, or assailants, hacked the servers of the Climate Research Unit and disseminated material from reputable climatological sources stating that the evidence of anthropogenic global warming is either inconclusive, exaggerated, or completely fabricated.
What makes this especially controversial is the fact that the world is now so invested and sold on the notion that humans are causing global warming that world policies like the Kyoto Protocol are founded upon them. Entire political parties are wrapped up in the notion and have profited off the pitch.
Even on commercials ranging from laundry detergent to gasoline, the "go green" mantra is now completely ingrained in the psyche of all Westerners. We have heard that "the science is in, the debate is over," yet large scientific dissent has been raised for decades now, which is only stifled by the allegation that only "fringe" scientists are skeptical of global warming. Some have even called it the greatest scientific hoax of all time. If proven conclusively true, it will certainly be one of the most historic scandals of the 21st century.
Those in favor of anthropogenic global warming are saying that the material in question is completely taken out of context and is nothing more than a clever smear campaign.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 12-04-2009 9:57 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 4 by Jazzns, posted 12-05-2009 12:06 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 8 by Son, posted 12-05-2009 4:52 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 62 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 12-07-2009 10:26 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 86 by Otto Tellick, posted 12-08-2009 4:20 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 191 (538285)
12-05-2009 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jazzns
12-05-2009 12:06 AM


double post
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jazzns, posted 12-05-2009 12:06 AM Jazzns has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 191 (538286)
12-05-2009 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jazzns
12-05-2009 12:06 AM


Can you link to it? Forgive me if I don't a Faux News clip as evidence. If it makes you feel any better I would equally dismiss a news clip from other sources as TV news tends to be pretty awful at covering the actually facts of the story.
Media is media, seems to me. In any case, here you are

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jazzns, posted 12-05-2009 12:06 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Buzsaw, posted 12-05-2009 9:04 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 18 by Jazzns, posted 12-05-2009 11:40 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 191 (538288)
12-05-2009 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
12-05-2009 12:24 AM


Re: Global warming is real!
Global warming is real, and it started about 15,000 years ago. Otherwise we'd still in an ice age.
There is little dispute that the earth's climate is warming. The dispute is over the cause. You seem to think the data points to a natural cycle but others, in almost religious fervor, believe that mankind and his industrial ways are the sole contributors of the planet's demise.
As you said, it's now difficult to actually find out what direction were headed.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Coyote, posted 12-05-2009 12:24 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Peg, posted 12-05-2009 8:16 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 15 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 12-05-2009 10:10 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 191 (538292)
12-05-2009 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Son
12-05-2009 4:52 AM


Fiction and Fact
Whereas GW may or may not be a real concern
Climate change is a legitimate concern and it should always be so. The earth has gone through series of cooling and warming periods that had catastrophic consequences to organisms adapted to both climates. That mega-fauna and most dinosaurs are gone could be due to Ice Ages. That Smilodon and Mastodon are no longer here could be attributed to the end of the Ice Age. Being that humans are organisms as well, climate affects us just as much.
the fact that carbon ressources are by their nature limited (and that we may be approaching Peak Oil or even past it) trumps everything else.
I agree completely. I agree that we should be looking away from fossil fuels, not only because its inevitable depletion, but pollution is real. Carcinogens in the air is real and it is legitimately not good for organisms.
The problem that I have is that some people have misused and manipulated the data to spawn an hysteria. The prophets of such doomsday scenario's have exploited the situation and profited generously on a false premise and injected the world with guilt for the Industrial Era, which, by the way, has saved billions of more lives in comparison.
The other day I took the kids to see one of the new 3-D movies out (as 3-D movies have become popularized again). Near the exit of the theater are recycling dispensary for the 3-D glasses. The wording is something the effect of, "Go green and be kind to our planet and recycle your glasses." Oh, please... Yes, lets pretend for one fucking second that your concern for recycling is in the interest of the planet rather than the obvious reason which is recycling of the glasses so that you can reuse them.
Americans should have an added reason not to consume oil: lots of it finance terrorists activities or at least suspicious activities that aren't in their best interests (e.g: Middle East). Their dependency on oil also makes them weaker when negotiating with oil exporting countries, something I thought libertarians and conservatives would be most concerned about.
Some conservatives for years have hidden or minimized the technology to go away from oil. Why? Because they were or knew oil barons and are on the Big Oil payroll. We could have shifted away from oil years ago, or at least started to make that transition away from oil. But it was suppressed.
The dependency on oil, especially foreign oil, is a big problem. The US should never have been so dependent on foreign oil. That's just one more reason why we should shift away from it.
I guess the point I am trying to make in general is that special interests groups exist to subvert and to dominate. But it seems especially sinister and disgusting when it is done under the pretext of "saving the planet."
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Son, posted 12-05-2009 4:52 AM Son has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by iano, posted 12-05-2009 1:59 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024