'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible

Hi Peg, Along with: Peg according to the deifinition of ekklsiaAny group of people called out in a meeting for a specific purpose is a church. Whether it is a PTA meeting, a Lyons club, boy scouts, etc. They all fit the requirements of a church.So Jesus Church must be a group of people He called out of the world for a specific purpose.In Matthew 4:18 it tells of Jesus walking by the sea of Galilee saw Peter and Andrew casting a net.In verse 19 He saith unto them, "follow me and I will make you fishers of men.In verse 20 they straightway followed Him.We have two men called out from their jobs as fishermen to the job of fishing for men for Jesus. That constituted Jesus Church.During Jesus personal ministry of some 3 1/2 years He acquired 120 disciples in His Church.This group of people was taught what they were supposed to do by Jesus Himself.They were given a set of marching orders prior to Jesus ascension. Jesus speaking to His disciples said, "All power is given unto me"He then tells His discipls:'Go ye' which is translated from the Greek word poreu which means:
1) to lead over, carry over, transfer
a) to pursue the journey on which one has entered, to continue on one's journey'teach' translated from the Greek word mathteu which means:
1) to be a disciple of one
a) to follow his precepts and instructions'all' translated from the Greek word pas which means:
1) individually
a) each, every, any,'nations' translated from the Greek word ethnos which means:
1) a multitude associated or living together'baptizing' translated from the Greek word baptiz which means:
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)Therefore Jesus tells His Church.As you go, we don't have a choice we journey here on earth till we die.Make disciples. Disciples are people who have believed Jesus and been born of the Holy Spirit.Baptizing them. The Church was to immerse, by sumerging those born again disciples in water.After which they were to teach those born again, baptized believers, all things He had taught the Church.That is the order Jesus set up and any other order is out of order.Now to answer the question, What is a scriptural New Testament Church of Jesus Christ.Any local group of scripturally baptized born again children of God who are called out of the world and assembled together to accomplish making disciples and then baptizing them and then teaching them the all things Jesus taught.Any group that is not doing things the way Jesus set them up is not a Church of the Lord Jesus Christ.Therefore there is only one scriptural New Testament Church.The one that believes Jesus and is doing things the way He set it up.Edited by ICANT, : correct spelling

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You underestimate the versatility of the word for word fundamentalists. I am sure the answer would be - well, there may have been other cities built on the same site but the original city was not rebuilt. It is a battle not worth fighting, imo.

EMA,When you tag items as (a), (b), (c) etc. within a quote box, please use the parentheses instead of square brackets. [b] begins the bold dBcode and messes up the quote box and the box won't appear correctly.Thanks
AdminPDEdited by AdminPD, : Typo

im not talking about individuals here, im talking about the adminstration of christianity.You havnt commented on why Jesus said
Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens"Surely his words should be taken seriously? If we do take them seriously we would be obliged to scrutinize our religons and our religous leaders. If we dont, then perhaps we will unwittingly fall into the category of people who are being 'prevented from entering the kingdom of God' because our religous leaders are misleading us by failing to uphold the teachings and standards that Jesus and the apostles upheld.

Hi ICANT,thats a fine rundown Good, so by this then we should be able to determine which of the many thousands of christian church's are actually teaching what Jesus taught. Right, so now we get to the crux of the matter. The standards and form of christianity as set out in the NT should be the basis for testing if a christian church is a true church or not.I think we've taken this offtopic now, but a thread on the NT criteria would be a good idea at this point. If you have any suggestions on what that criteria is, and if you have time, perhaps you could join in a new thread?

Hi Peg, Well that is the problem.We have over 1288 different so called christian churches in the US.Each one of them think they are the true church.Nobody liked the old time religion that the song was written about, so they modernized it. Brought it up to speed so to speak because it was outdated and not good enough for the times we live in.The first problem was the Bible so they rewrote it to suit their own needs and beliefs.Many are still trying to rewrite it today, even here at EvC.In Message 19 I broke down and discussed what Matthew 16:27, 28 says using the Greek and the proper rules for Bible Analysis.Peepful responded to the message but no one else did.No one refuted the post.Matthew 16:27 has not taken place yet as Jesus has not set up a physical kingdom on earth yet. The Greek word basileia translated kingdom here refers to royal power, authority, dominion.basileia comes from the root word basileus which means:1) leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, kingWhen Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on the colt of an ass in His triumphant entrance coming in His kingdom authority there was some there that received Him as King.Most rejected Him and crucified Him 5 days later.So yes there was many that heard Jesus words recorded in Matthew 16:28 that saw Him come in His Kingdom authority, as there was a parade in which the King entered JerusalemOne day Jesus will sit on a physical throne in Jerusalem and rule the entire world from there. Then He will have a physical kingdom and a physical rule.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Do I? I've already heard that silly response and others.

First, that's no indication of superhuman powers if you just make a statement about a future even and then go stage the fulfillment.Second, we have no external confirmation the 'fulfillment' ever happened.Third, that's really stretching it to say he was a king and that was a 'coming into his kingdom'. He was an itinerate preacher who may or may not have made a not all that impressive an entrance into the city. Further, there is no kingdom involved.

Hi Statman,Welcome to EvC. The multitude of people that were there: Sounds like a parade to me. The Israelites had been looking for a king of the lineage of David to come and set them free from their bondage for hundreds of years.The multitude accepted Jesus as that king.Mark recorded the events with these comments. They were looking for a king to come and take the throne of David and rule the world forever as that is what had been promised.Jesus was rejected by the majority as king because He did not come riding on a white charger with a large army and take over all government functions.They refused to accept the one come to set them free from the bondage of sin because all they wanted was someone to set them free from Roman rule. I guess you could say He was a traveling announcer, that according to the folks that were there and wrote about His entrance said it caused quite a stir. You will get no argument from me on this point as that is what I was trying to prove by the definitions of the Greek word translated kingdom.He had kingdom authority then as He has had since He created the universe and everything in it.There was no physical kingdom set up during Jesus trip to earth in the flesh body like a man. He came the first time as a deliverer from the bondage of sin the first man sold us into.When He comes the second time He will be riding on that white charger, and all the governments of the world will bow down to His authority.He will then set up a government and rule the world from Jerusalem.The True Church is not the kingdom but she does have kingdom authority.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Icant,Excuse me but why are you posting this material to me? I am likely much more familiar with it than you are - unless you have a theology degree.

Icant,One more thing, you say: Thanks for that admission. You are making my point. Since this did not happen, the prophecy (assuming it was ever made by Jesus) was NOT fulfilled.

Hi Statman, As far as you being more qualified than I am, you may be. But I seriously doubt it.You sound like some of the first year students I have had in the past.And from your post in reply to my post Message 66 to Peg I don't put much stock in that piece of sheepskin if you really have one.In Message 71 You: I wasn't admiting anything, I was making a statement of fact.The prophecy of Jesus coming in kingdom power did happen upon His triumphant entry into Jerusalem.This prophecy: Is still in the future.Do you believe in the future return of Jesus to the earth? Do you believe this prophecy will come to pass?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi ICANT, why do you think its going to be a physical rule?Why cant it be a rulership from heaven?

Hi Peg, Because the Bible teaches that it will be.Since a discussion of that would be off topic in this thread, why don't you start a thread on the end times and we can discuss the events leading up to: And those events following.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I’ve been slow to respond because I’ve been thinking about what you said from time to time since you said it. This msg will be somewhat peripheral to the topic. I may post a more direct response later. What I said was based on your lengthy response in msg 69. It was stuff I am well aware of and which anyone could have posted after going to an apologetics site. In looking at some of your other msgs, I notice you comment on greek words. These also could be looked up. Alternatively, you may have formal course work in the language. In your latest response, I see mention of your first year students, so I presume you are a teacher of religious classes. However, I also note that you did not mention having a theology degree. Could you clarify what your education and occupation are?My statement was also based on the reasonable assumption that you were an average American. In my view, the average American knows very little about the Bible and has had no formal instruction in it. I on the other hand, have had such instruction in 4 years of parochial boarding school where we were immersed in the matter as well as 4 years of parochial college. In addition, I’ve done far more reading than the average American on the subject. I suppose so. More advanced students have generally either accepted the answer they were given (gullibly in my view), rejected it but do not wish to belabor the point, (a few) or dropped out of school entirely (a few). In my case I once accepted one of the three apologetic answers I am aware of but later rejected it. I have no grade at risk from a teacher and I am not bogging the class down on a point. I initially was rather annoyed by your statement for not one but two reasons. I have made absolutely no claim in any post on this board to any degree. And I find your questioning of my veracity is annoying too. I have no reason to lie. I’m here to have a civil and mature discussion. For the record, I do have a bachelor’s degree in math with a minor in physics.Finally, you ask me several question. The answer is no, I am not a believer. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic