Species/Kinds (for Peg...and others)

Hi Huntard, Kind is defined by whoever is giving the definition.The Hebrew word miyn translated kind means kind as our translators did not have a definition for it.It comes from an unused root meaning of to portion out.The problem with the word kinds is that when it is used it is not when God created plants, animals birds, water fowl and water creatures. That was simply when He called them forth after their kind that had already existed.In Genesis 2:7 God formed mankind from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living being.In Genesis 2:8 God planted a garden. It does not specify what He planted.In Genesis 2:9 God made every tree to grow out of the ground.In Genesis 2:19 God formed every beast of the field and every fowl of the air.The word every is all inclusive. It includes every kind of creature that ever existed and we have on and in the earth and air today.There was a massive extinction event that took place.Thus after restoring the earth to be inhabitable in Genesis 1:2-10.In Genesis 1:11 God called the vegetation forth from the seeds that was in the ground after their kind.In Genesis 1:20 God called the moving creature and fowl from the waters.In Genesis 1:21 God created great whales and every living creature that moveth. The waters brought them forth after their kind and every winged fowl after his kind.In Genesis 1:25 God made every creature upon the earth after his kind.In Genesis 1:27 God created mankind in the image of God created He them male and female.Now the problem with kind as I see it is that man has his own ideas about what kind is.But God created every creature that you can find that has ever existed on the planet earth in any shape form or fashion. Except the ones that man has engineered.God only ceased creating some 6,000 years ago as we are told in Genesis 2:2.Prior to that He could have created anything at anytime He so desired and if He did not tell Moses about the specifics we would not have them. All we do have is what God told Moses during their 40 days together on the mount.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Huntard, In Message 1 you stated: Now do you want to discuss how many kinds you can get on the Ark or what a kind is?I think I explained what a kind is as my junior class (10-12) year olds have no problem with understanding what a kind is.Now if you want to discuss how many kinds were on the Ark all you have to do is list the different kinds of creatures on earth today and those that have become extinct in the last 4000 years. If I had that list then I could take my ark that I have 18 acres of floor space in and see if they would fit or if I would need to redesign it for more floor space which room is available for.But wouldn't that be totally off topic in this thread?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Coyote, If this is indeed deemed on topic in this thread please present the list of kinds you don't think will fit into the Ark and I will pull out my Chief Architech program and see if I can design a Ark that they will fit in.The list would need to have every kind that is living on earth today as well as those that have become extinct since the flood took place.According to the Bible the only creatures on the Ark was those that God caused to come to the Ark and get on it. Noah gathered no creatures.I await your list.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Coyote, I read your post and you said all kinds would not fit on the Ark.I ask you for a list of all kinds that you don't think will fit on the Ark.You give me an extimate of the number.How am I supposed to determine the amount of space for each of these creatures if you do not give me a name of the creature so I can figure out how much space is reuired for that creature. This is rocket science so to speak.You said the kinds won't fit in the Ark.So give me your list of kinds that won't fit in the Ark.Don't expect me to do that leg work I will have plenty to do finding their sizes and then preparing their accomodations.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Coyote, I would say at the point a finch ceases to be a finch would be the line I would draw and say a kind can not cross that line.If species is that line then so be it.I still need a list of the species you don't believe will fit on the Ark.You are adamant they won't fit so you must know what they are.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Coyote, What difference does it make of what I define a kind as.You have declared that if kinds = species they won't fit on the Ark.I will allow for any number of variations in a species. But as long as it remains of that species it is the same kind.Now if you can give me the list of your "kinds=species" that won't fit on the Ark I will spend the time to see if they will fit.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi ZenMonkey, I was simply referring to the statement made by Coyote in Message 35 which states: When a finch ceases to be a finch then it has become another kind.
I don't care if they choose not to breed for some reason or can not breed for some reason as long as it is a finch it is the same kind just a variation in the kind.But that really does not matter to me. All I want is a list of the kinds=species that Coyote says won't fit on the Ark. If I have that list then I can determine if they will fit or not.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Coyote, If your statement is off topic then we have nothing to talk about.Good day.God Bless,Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Briterican, Why would water creatures present a problem? Why would collection present a problem?
They all showed up at the Ark at loading time. You can but I would rather have Coyote's list of kinds=species that can not fit on the Ark. So I can figure out if they can or not.I have stated that Kind, would equal species as long as that kind/species remained the same kind.I used Darwin's 15 species of finches as an example. Some cross breed and others do not for various reasons but all 15 species are finches. None of them are classified as a hawk or buzzard.When they cease to be a finch then they become a different kind.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mr Jack, Since the Hebrew word מין transliterated miyn is over 3500 years old, when was it invented as a simple get out clause?What was it invented to get out of?It was a simple statement of fact.It was first used in Genesis 1:11: God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mr Jack, Well I still believe that.If you will look at what I have said I think you will agree.All I have ever said is a kind is a kind and can never become another kind as they produce after their kind.If I am not mistaken science has proved that is the case.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Nuggin, Then you come up with a definition of Kind.We have a lot of scholars who over the last 600 years have tried to come up with a definition for the Hebrew word miyn and have so far not succeeded in producing one.In fact for the previous 2500 years there was no problem as to what a kind was. There is a mankind. A mankind produces mankind nothing else.There is a cow kind. A cow kind produces a cow kind nothing else.There is an eagle kind. A eagle kind produces an eagle kind nothing else. Add up to what?How much do you have to add to get a single cell life form to produce mankind?That would be one kind becoming another kind.No that would be a lot of kinds becoming other kinds.It is very funny the fossil record does not show a single kind becoming another kind.In fact there is a study that shows forams of 60 million years ago were forams. After 60 million years and with 500,000 thousand of those years without a missing link in which 330 species of forams appeared at the end of the day we have a wide varity of forams nothing else.Pretty conclusive proof that the single cell life form never became anything more than many varities of that single cell life form. You can state anything you desire to state.But try as you may you will never get A to be B.Just as you can try all you want too, you will never get a hog to grow up to be anything but a hog. Maybe I should insert Red Butlers statement to Scarlet here.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mr Jack, Agreed but it is stated: Each seed brought forth after it's kind. Each creature after his kind. Not another kind.So if each only produced after it own kind where did any kind produce any other kind? Then you have fossil records showing one kind becoming another kind.Or do you just have the imaginations of someone who believes that a lot of little changes over time can cause a creature of one kind to cease to be that kind and become another totally different kind.We are totally different from a single cell life form.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Mr Jack, I have asked before but I will ask you. Where can I find all these fossils showing all this transition?If you need to you could start a thread where you could present such information I would be all ears.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Coyote, I have seen many of RAZD'S posts. I have even read every link he has pointed out to me. I just don't have enough faith.I have seen the picture of the skulls. I have read about all the shenanigans. I often wonder how the artist come up with some of the pictures of something when they only have a fragment of a body to work with.I have read about RAZD'S horses and the door step line up has been changed. You have 3 toed horses after 2 toed. I still don't have enough faith.I even have my own horse line up so I changed my Avatar to it.It is a fact that things change over time.It is a fact that you can improve breeds by selective breeding even in humans.There has never been and experiment, an observation or a reproduction of one creature ceasing to be one creature and becoming a totally different creature. I don't care how many little changes you pile up on a creature or how many species you say you have. As long as it is the same creature it has not changed. It has just been modified.We do have a 60 million year record of forams with the last 500,000 years like a book with no missing pages. During that 500,000 years there were 330 new species of Forams created. But low and behold they were still forams.Transmutation does not happen.That is what it takes for one kind to become another kind.If you believe it does you have more faith than I do.Because you have zero scientific, verifiable, reproducible evidence of such ever happening.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."