Species/Kinds (for Peg...and others)

Hi Coyote, I have seen many of RAZD'S posts. I have even read every link he has pointed out to me. I just don't have enough faith.I have seen the picture of the skulls. I have read about all the shenanigans. I often wonder how the artist come up with some of the pictures of something when they only have a fragment of a body to work with.I have read about RAZD'S horses and the door step line up has been changed. You have 3 toed horses after 2 toed. I still don't have enough faith.I even have my own horse line up so I changed my Avatar to it.It is a fact that things change over time.It is a fact that you can improve breeds by selective breeding even in humans.There has never been and experiment, an observation or a reproduction of one creature ceasing to be one creature and becoming a totally different creature. I don't care how many little changes you pile up on a creature or how many species you say you have. As long as it is the same creature it has not changed. It has just been modified.We do have a 60 million year record of forams with the last 500,000 years like a book with no missing pages. During that 500,000 years there were 330 new species of Forams created. But low and behold they were still forams.Transmutation does not happen.That is what it takes for one kind to become another kind.If you believe it does you have more faith than I do.Because you have zero scientific, verifiable, reproducible evidence of such ever happening.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Nuggin, So if I breed a herford cow with a Gernsey bull, what will I get?
Will it be a Cow that is 1/2 herford and 1/2 Gernsey?
OR
Will it be some other kind of creature?I have never said there is not variation within kinds in fact I have given examples of animals I produced by selective breeding. You have given an example of varation in kinds nothing more.When they cease to be cows and become flying creatures then you could say they produced a new kind. I am short 3 years by 3 months.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Noah did not take any cats. The cats arrived just at loading time.But my question is why would they have to be "Big Cats"?Couldn't they have been small cubs? Take up less room and less food. Remember God provided the animals for Noah he did not have to go round them up.Just a thought.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Peg, Yes we humans are responsible for most of the breeds of dogs and cats as well as cows, horses, chickens, even some fish, and birds. We have even interfered with many of the wild animals such as deer.But yes Noah did need at least a pair of each kind which God gladly provided for the journey.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Nuggin, Well no, I just admitted I could not come up with one you liked so I invited you to make up your own.Which you made a bigger mess out of than I did.For thousands of years there was no problem with what a kind was. Now all of a sudden it is a big problem.If it is a dog it is a dog kind.If it is a wolf it is a wolf kind.If it is a tiger it is a tiger kind.If it is a lion it is a lion kind.If it is a horse it is a horse kind.If it is a cow it is a cow kind.If it is a bear it is a bear kind.If it is a man/woman it is a mankind.And the list goes on and on and on. Would you care to start a thread and prove Genesis 1:1 false?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Not really. I am actually basing it on the data we do have. Like say the fact mitochandrial Eve lived 170,000 years ago and Y nuclear Adam 70,000 years ago. That can't be what the bible means... And that they lived 100,000 years apart, and that the woman was here first. Or is the research not reliable in those instances? Really? Then deal with the fact the evidence shows your Eve lived 100,000 years before your Adam. And that evolution is true. And that no evidence at all for your god exists. Or do the facts suddenly become irrelevant then?

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I hunt for the truthI am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

Some have estimated that the billions of species living today can't be reduced to a few family "kinds". Empty assumption leave no impression on me. Not according to you. A kind must be interfertile and not all big cats are. Therefore, there must have been more kinds. Not all can, therefore they are not all of the same kind. So, evolution's true now? Sounds like you accept evolution. Welcome to the club! No, that wouldn't have fitted. But not all big cats are interfertile. Therefore, by your definition, they are not of the same kind.

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I hunt for the truthI am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

Yes, what about them? According to your definition of kind, if it's not interfertile, it's not the same kind. It's a eason to doubt your definition of kind, however. Yes. Though nothing points to that.

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I hunt for the truthI am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

Hi ICANT im sure Gods wisdom would have put on the ark exactly what was needed. What i mean by 'big cats' is the large wild variety of cat...i call them 'big cats' because we really dont know what it was...it could have been something similar to a lion or a tiger but we have no way of knowing.so its a big cat as opposed to the smaller domestic kind.

So, how do they fend for themselves or learn what is necessary to survive in the wild? How do they get food after they left the ark? How are they mature enough to mate? How did they NOT get eaten by predators?Let me guess: god taught them?

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

well the bible doesnt discuss mtDNA, but it is in agreeance with known science that there was one human mother & father for all people living today. something is not quite right about it...perhaps they need to check their figures. well the physical evidence of human existance shows us that there were no records of any prehistoric man. All writing and language and artworks etc dont go beyond 6,000 odd years. The fossil records in the earth provide no link between man and the animals and there is nothing documenting subhumans in mans earliest records.So, while i'm happy to see the evidence they have found with regard to our earliest female ancestor, I dont believe the dating is accurate.
. I thought you said that evolution has nothing to do with God or creation?Oh, i must have been imagining it lol.

we've already discussed this and i'm not going to chase my tail going over it again.,that link i provided in an earlier post to 'hybrids' shows that many of the big cats can cross breed. (many more then i had realized prior)

Do you know what forams are, ICANT?Foraminifera isn't a species, not a genus, not a family, or an order or even a frickin' class. Forminifera is a phylum. A phylum! Saying there's no change because they're still forams is like saying a snake, a hamster, a bird, a whale, a sea cucumber, an eel and a frog haven't changed from their common ancestor because they're all still chordates.

So you know more about genetics than geneticists? Ever heard of the Human Genome Project?

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Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

That's not what the data shows, Peg. Again, you misunderstood. What? They need to check their figures? Do you think scientists just make shit up, Peg? That don't "check their figures" very very very thoroughly? Actually, the fossil record does just that. So, the research is reliable when it fits your religious views, but it isn't when it contradicts it. Nice standards there, peg. It doesn't Nor do I say that here. I wonder how you came to that conclusion?

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I hunt for the truthI am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead