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Author Topic:   An inconvenient truth.... or lie?
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 136 of 191 (539044)
12-12-2009 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by John 10:10
12-12-2009 11:34 AM


Re: Climate change man-caused?
(1) What was man doing or not doing during the 1950's thru the 1970's when scientists were actually worried that we were entering into a mini-iceage?
Question 1: why did scientists think this? Question 2: why did they stop? Have you ever bothered to find out the answer to these questions?
(2) It was only when the mini-iceage of the 1970's ended that the global warmingites began to develop their beliefs that man had somehow caused the warming climate change of the 1980's thru the 1990's.
What mini-iceage? And I see the answer two Question 2 is no, you never bothered. I guess it's easier to deny reality when you don't bother with pesky facts, hey?
(3) Since 1998 the global temps have actually decreased about 0.6C. When this data could not be fit into the fudged temp models that declared man's CO2 emissions were causing global temps to irreversibly increase, then a massive cover-up ensued to suppress this information.
The concept of a trend is too difficult for you, huh?
(4) Carbon dioxide is released to the atmosphere by a variety of natural sources, and over 95% of total CO2 emissions would occur even if humans were not present on Earth. For example, the natural decay of organic material in forests and grasslands, such as dead trees, results in the release of about 220 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide every year.
Really? Gosh! And do you think these figures were worked out by real climate scientists or by fuckwitted climate deniers like yourself? For crying out loud! Are you really such a drooling halfwit that you think this is news to climate scientists?
(5) Therefore, climate change talks and agreements are about power, manipulation and control of the 5% of CO2 emissions that are caused by man, which includes breathing and burning fossil fuels!!!
If you earn 1000 a month and spend 1005 what happens to your bank account?
It's also about a massive wealth transfer from the "have nations" to the "have not" nations.
Non-sequitor much? Besides which in what possible world is a transfer from the massively rich to the poor a bad thing? Do you just not like poor people? Do you think they deserve to starve and suffer for their
terrible crime of being born in the wrong country?
(6) Pure and simple, climate change is about following the money of those who have irreversibly tied their welfare to climate change being man-caused!!! This includes scientists, politicians, and government workers, and global warmingites who will implement and profit from this massive scam.
Yes, because of course those scientists earning 30-35k a year are shamelessly chasing profits while the multi trillion pound energy and travel industries that back climate denial they have no vested interest. Why didn't I see it before!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by John 10:10, posted 12-12-2009 11:34 AM John 10:10 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Buzsaw, posted 12-12-2009 6:01 PM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 148 of 191 (539223)
12-14-2009 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Buzsaw
12-12-2009 6:01 PM


Re: Climate change man-caused?
Hi Mr Jack. Tell me, since after my third appeal, everyone has evaded the question; did real objective climate scientists choose the placement locations of anthropogenic warming data censors from which they measure the extent of anthropogenic global warming?
As Tanypteryx said: what the frick are "anthropogenic warming data censors"? I'll assume you mean ground based temperature sensors, of the kind used to provide one set of data of global temperature?
There's no single reason why sensors were placed where they were. Most (probably) are where they are to collect data for meterological purposes, some are positioned by climate scientists, some for whatever other reasons. Why?
Please don't tell me you going to repeat the oft stated lie that the difference in global temperatures can be ascribed to the Urban Heat Island effect and misplaced sensors. Phil Jones, arch-conspirator himself, actually performed an analysis excluding all urban ground based temperature sensors and found the same warming trend as elsewhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Buzsaw, posted 12-12-2009 6:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 168 of 191 (540096)
12-22-2009 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Buzsaw
12-21-2009 9:09 PM


Re: Resident confused scientists?
How do the remote sensors differenciate between anthropogenic and other CO2, etc? How do they determine which nation/s produce the most pollutants? The prevailing winds eventually carry the polution across the Pacific from China and other nations to the US where the censors would eventually pick up data, would they not?
Sensors, Buz!, Sensors. A censor is someone who censors film, music, books etc., a sensor measures something.
Anyways, pedantry aside, sensors do not measure the difference between the CO2 we put out and the CO2 put out by natural sources; nor do they measure the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere atributable to each particular nation. No. Those things are calculated by a vast array of different measurements.
Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Buzsaw, posted 12-21-2009 9:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Buzsaw, posted 12-22-2009 12:23 PM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 169 of 191 (540097)
12-22-2009 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by ZenMonkey
12-22-2009 12:02 AM


Re: Resident confused scientists?
The source of those pictures is the US Historical Climate Neworks. At least part of USHCN's job appears to be surveying NOAA surface stations. If you'll look for more than 10 seconds, you'll see that those highlighted stations were being specifially cited as examples of known placement problems, as documented by the responsible organizations themselves.
Your link does not support that statement
quote:
Q: Why is a TV/radio meteorologist and volunteers doing this job? Shouldn't this be the work of climate scientists?
A; Well it should be, but the USHCN has been established since 1994, and in that time, the NCDC scientists managing the network have not done this most basic of quality control checks; visiting each station, doing a photographic survey, and determining if the climate monitoring station temperature and rainfall measurement been compromised by any local influences. While there is a metadata system in place, it is primarily designed to show site moves and instrumentation changes. Remote data analysis and applied statistical techniques cannot replace basic observations in all cases. Basic observation of any experiment and recording of what is observed is the foundation of professional science practice. Likewise, sharing such data is also one of those tenets. Therefore during and after the survey is completed, the data will be publicly available for any scientist that wishes to use it to further analyze the data from these stations and provide appropriately calculated adjustments.
While a government survey program may take months of planning, months or years more of execution, and hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a simple volunteer program like this can easily and without taxpayer cost produce the same or better results, and certainly at a much faster pace. Hopefully this project can serve as a model for a future program administered by NOAA.
  —surfacestations.orf FAQ
Which rather suggests that USHCN is not doing what you are saying it is.
Here is a link to NOAA's response to SurfaceStations.org
Edited by Mr Jack, : Added NOAA response

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ZenMonkey, posted 12-22-2009 12:02 AM ZenMonkey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Buzsaw, posted 12-22-2009 11:56 AM Dr Jack has replied
 Message 172 by ZenMonkey, posted 12-22-2009 1:09 PM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 173 of 191 (540148)
12-22-2009 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Buzsaw
12-22-2009 11:56 AM


Re: Resident confused scientists?
Hi Mr Jack. According to your link the modernization and maintainence upgrading funding just happens to apply to the hottest region of our nation, the Southwest. Isn't that convenient for the warmist camp? Perhaps it would have been scientifically prudent to spread what funds that were available evenly over the cold and hot regions so as to arrive at a more objective conclusion.
When you're looking at trends absolute values matter little so the southwest being warming isn't a problem (although a reduced spread of data points is).
I'd presume the reason the southwest is getting the update first is either because funding comes from particular bodies or because there's a reason to want better data in that region in particular.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Buzsaw, posted 12-22-2009 11:56 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 184 of 191 (541745)
01-06-2010 4:35 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Huntard
01-04-2010 4:53 PM


Re: Documentary on the subject
"Documentary"? Is that any documentary in there? Or does it continue in the same hack job vein all the way through? (I didn't watch it all).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Huntard, posted 01-04-2010 4:53 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
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