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Author Topic:   Speed of Light
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Message 186 of 268 (539568)
12-17-2009 5:23 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Bolder-dash
12-16-2009 9:08 AM


Re: light travels
Hi Bolder-dash,

You and Viv are going to be hearing from me more and more frequently if you cannot refrain from editorializing about the people you're discussing with. There is a Peanut Gallery thread and a Coffee House forum where that would be more appropriate.

I believe that this thread would be much more productive if Viv could resist the urge to take shots at everyone else, for example, about how frightened they are to consider anything new. We all love the novelty of new ideas, and Nobel prizes spring from new ideas. Viv's task is to muster the evidence and arguments for successfully promoting his views, and that definitely is not about "giving 'em hell". Give 'em evidence, and if the evidence supports the views then they'll think it's hell.

What I see from Viv is a great deal of self-praise combined with pompous denigration of anyone who disagrees with him, and his explanations almost always fall far short of anything useful. My criteria for a successful explanation is one that I could use to convince someone else. So far all Viv has provided here that I understand and could explain to others is how mistreated he is, and that's not the topic of this thread.

Viv has the additional problem of exhibiting the grandiose behavior of the delusional, such as claiming his ideas solve some of the most stubborn problems in physics today, like harmonizing relativity and quantum theory.

Let me conclude by providing the specific guidelines that Viv has been having significant problems with, just so there's no confusion. Notice that they have nothing to do with anyone's personal position on any issue:

  1. Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.

  2. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

  3. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

You ran afoul of rule 10. Digressions are inevitable in any thread, but digressions to engage in attaboys for someone already violating three guidelines, and combined with yet more discussion of the participants rather than the topic, was a bit over the top.

See you in a few hours.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Bolder-dash, posted 12-16-2009 9:08 AM Bolder-dash has taken no action

  
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Message 193 of 268 (539746)
12-19-2009 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Viv Pope
12-19-2009 11:08 AM


Re: Spin and Perception
Hi Viv,

I'm not a participant in the discussion, so you shouldn't be directing replies to me. If you have issues or problems regarding discussion or moderation then please take them to the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread.

Long experience has taught us that discussion of moderation issues isn't very often productive. EvC Forum's position on such issues is that those with viable positions or ideas will keep their attention focused on evidence and rational arguments, so my suggestion is that you do that.

If you would like to discuss the meta-issues you keep trying to introduce into the discussion, such as hostility or fears you think are being exhibited by your co-participants, then begin a new thread over at the Coffee House forum and discuss them there to your heart's content. Raising them again in this thread will bring 24 hour suspensions every time you do so (not this time, however, since you've just returned from suspension). In case this isn't clear, you are not being told you can't discuss such issues, because you most certainly can. But you can't discuss them anywhere you please, because in most threads it would be off-topic. You should take such issues to a thread where they would be on-topic, and the easiest way to do that would be to initiate this thread yourself.

Many here would love to better understand your ideas. If you'd like to discuss them then this is a great place to do that. If you only want to refer people to what you've written at other websites then you've already done that.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Viv Pope, posted 12-19-2009 11:08 AM Viv Pope has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Viv Pope, posted 12-20-2009 6:22 AM Admin has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 196 of 268 (539844)
12-20-2009 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Viv Pope
12-20-2009 6:22 AM


Re: Spin and Perception
Hi Viv,

You seem to be having remarkable difficulty getting the hang of things around here.

  1. One does not carry on dialogs with moderators in discussion threads, which should maintain their focus on the topic. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE.

  2. The issues you're raising are ones that should be raised over at Report discussion problems here: No.2. That is the proper place to raise issues regarding other participants, topic focus, board moderation, etc.

  3. This is not your thread. You're using it to discuss your own ideas, but as the thread's originator is no longer active I see no problem with this. But if you'd like a thread more appropriate to and more tightly focused on your topic, one where you have the opportunity in the opening post to outline the topic and highlight the issues, then you can propose one over at Proposed New Topics.

  4. It isn't your ideas that are off-topic in this thread. It is your continual resort to accusations of fear and hysteria and lack of courage and insight on the part of those you're discussing with. Getting personal in this way is off-topic in any discussion thread.

    Since you have such a strong proclivity for these kinds of accusations I assume that you are also unable to keep them out of your books, so I presume that the publisher of your books often gives you the same cautions requesting edits. Although since I can't find any online presence for phi Philosophical Enterprises it is possible that your books are self-published.

  5. Grandiose declarations of having solved some of the most knotty problems of physics while engaging in name dropping and denigration will always appear delusional and bring derision. If you want the derision to stop then just focus on getting your ideas across and stop all the editorializing. I can't step in to defend you when you're in effect holding up a big sign saying, "Kick me."

  6. Whether you stay or go is up to you, unless you begin behaving like a troll or a spammer. Violations of the Forum Guidelines where normal cautions aren't being heeded usually bring only 24 hour suspensions, the purpose being to make clear that the Forum Guidelines are taken seriously here.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Viv Pope, posted 12-20-2009 6:22 AM Viv Pope has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Viv Pope, posted 12-20-2009 10:47 AM Admin has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 197 of 268 (539846)
12-20-2009 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Viv Pope
12-20-2009 7:21 AM


Re: A Working Model
Viv Pope writes:

It looks as though I won't be allowed on this thread for long since the conclusion I was coming to on this question of ‘Lightspeed’ seems close to being disallowed.

Just to clarify once again, nothing related to what is necessary for you to communicate your ideas in physics is being ruled off topic. What's off topic is discussion like this:

Viv Pope in Message 191 writes:

Some people I’ve discussed this with are sceptical about the use of these forums altogether. They’re only “playing games”, says one , “They’ll never understand you,” says one colleague, ” “They’ll make every excuse to ban you”, says another. Another says: “The only response you’ll get will be silly ‘Yah Boo!’ replies.” and yet another colleague says: “It will frighten them shirtless” – or, at least, that’s what it sounded like.

This is an example of one of the meta-topics that you keep trying to introduce into this discussion thread, and I will continue suspending you for 24 hours each time you attempt to do so. Take such issues to the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread, or if you'd like to more tightly focus on your issues then open a new thread over at Suggestions and Questions.

This isn't rocket science, Viv. This thread is for discussing ideas in physics related to the speed of light. If you'd like to discuss other things, take them to the appropriate threads. I happened to find this over at the Bad Astronomy Forum from a couple years ago. This is precisely the kind of thing we never want to see here:

Viv Pope at Bad Astronomy writes:

But your wriggling is all too predictable, and this one was almost an epileptic fit!

EvC Forum was founded as a place where contributions like these would not be allowed, and so we don't tolerate this kind of thing here. Clear?

Please, no replies to this message in this thread.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Viv Pope, posted 12-20-2009 7:21 AM Viv Pope has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Viv Pope, posted 12-20-2009 10:11 AM Admin has seen this message

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 199 of 268 (539856)
12-20-2009 10:30 AM


Moderator Comment about Viv Pope
To all,

Viv Pope is permitted to discuss any and all aspects of his ideas about the speed of light and their impact on physics as a science in this thread. If he decides to discontinue his participation here at EvC Forum then that is his choice.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 201 of 268 (539867)
12-20-2009 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Viv Pope
12-20-2009 10:47 AM


Viv Pope Suspended 24 Hours
Viv,

I don't understand what you're doing. You just said you were leaving, now you post again? To a message that specifically requests you not reply to it?

The proper place for these kinds of discussions, as I keep telling you over and over and over again, is Report discussion problems here: No.2. To give you the necessary time for figuring this out I'm suspending you for 24 hours.

If when your suspension expires tomorrow morning you decide you would like to continue discussion then be sure your posts are in the proper thread and focus on the topic. It's that simple.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Viv Pope, posted 12-20-2009 10:47 AM Viv Pope has taken no action

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
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Message 205 of 268 (540006)
12-21-2009 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Viv Pope
12-21-2009 12:47 PM


Viv Pope Suspended 48 Hours
Hi Viv,

Viv Pope writes:

It's remarkable that you are allowed to get away with such personal insults to which I'm not allowed to respond.

Of course you're allowed to respond. The place to do that is over at Report discussion problems here: No.2. I keep telling you to take your complaints there, but instead you keep complaining here. Such complaints are off-topic in this thread. Because you continue to be off-topic, and because you continue to fail to follow moderator requests (rule 1 in the Forum Guidelines, check 'em out some time), and because you became personal (rule 10), and because your violations are persistent, I'm suspending you for 48 hours this time. See you Wednesday.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Viv Pope, posted 12-21-2009 12:47 PM Viv Pope has taken no action

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 209 of 268 (540384)
12-24-2009 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Viv Pope
12-24-2009 1:56 PM


Welcome Back
No worries, Viv. I hope you have a long and productive stay here. We just have a few rules is all, guidelines for helping things run smoothly.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Viv Pope, posted 12-24-2009 1:56 PM Viv Pope has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Viv Pope, posted 12-29-2009 12:05 PM Admin has seen this message

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 223 of 268 (540936)
12-30-2009 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Viv Pope
12-30-2009 6:30 AM


Re: Welcome Back
Hi Viv,

If you would like to discuss how opinions and attitudes are influenced by senior or authority figures then please propose a new thread over at Proposed New Topics.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Viv Pope, posted 12-30-2009 6:30 AM Viv Pope has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Viv Pope, posted 12-31-2009 2:00 AM Admin has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 230 of 268 (541078)
12-31-2009 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Viv Pope
12-31-2009 2:00 AM


Re: Welcome Back
Hi Viv,

You are not being asked to leave this thread. You are being asked to confine your discussion to the topic.

You are not restricted to participation in a single thread. You can participate in as many threads simultaneously as you wish. You can discuss as many different topics at the same time as you like, but in each thread in which you choose to participate you will be requested to direct the majority of your attention to the topic of that thread.

When discussing issues related to the speed of light, this is the correct thread for that topic.

Other issues, such as how opinions and attitudes are influenced by senior or authority figures, or such as some of the issues you tried to bring up previously, such as that your ideas are rejected out of fear or lack of imagination, should be taken to threads where they would be on topic. If you cannot find a thread for topics you want to discuss, then propose a new topic over at Proposed New Topics.

The Forum Guidelines at EvC Forum have been in place for many years. These are the first two rules, and the last one:

  1. Follow all moderator requests.

  2. Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.

  3. Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.

I cannot pretend that I have not had to repeat the request to stay on topic to you many times. Simple rules like these should be no problem for someone who understands quantum physics and cosmology, and so your apparent ongoing inability to understand and conform yourself to these rules can only be considered willful and purposeful. For me to simply continue repeating these rules to you would be to fail to recognize that something other than a lack of comprehension is behind your behavior, that you're doing it on purpose, and that you're apparently not going to stop.

The bottom line is that you can either focus your attention in this thread on the topic, or you can be suspended every time you fail to do so.

Any members who think they can make all this clear to Viv are invited to try to help me out by posting advice to him over at the Report discussion problems here: No.2 thread, but please keep it positive and impersonal.

Please, no replies to this message in this thread.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Viv Pope, posted 12-31-2009 2:00 AM Viv Pope has taken no action

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 235 of 268 (541331)
01-02-2010 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Viv Pope
01-02-2010 2:45 PM


Please Focus on the Topic
Hi Viv,

It's still the Christmas/New Year's holiday break, so be patient when you're expecting replies. Don't let boredom prompt you to behavior that will force me to suspend you again.

If you have a problem with Onifre's message from over 6 months ago then the proper place to report this problem is over at (and let me use larger text this time):

Report discussion problems here: No.2

But I suspect you're referring not to the content of Onifre's message but to his signature, which has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion. People are given considerable latitude in their signatures, and there's nothing in the Forum Guidelines about language, but if you want to argue that it is too offensive then the place to take that complaint is (once again):

Report discussion problems here: No.2

Please, no replies to this message in this thread. If you are having problems with discussion that you need to discuss with a moderator then please take them to (one more time):

Report discussion problems here: No.2

In the spirit of the holiday season I'm not suspending you this time.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Viv Pope, posted 01-02-2010 2:45 PM Viv Pope has taken no action

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 238 of 268 (541339)
01-02-2010 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Viv Pope
01-02-2010 3:43 PM


Re: Welcome Back
Hi Viv,

I'm seriously beginning to question your sincerity:

Viv Pope writes:

However, there have been some journals which have taken the risk, such as GED (Galilean Electrodynamics), Physics Essays, the Journal of Theoretics, Hadronic Press, Journal of New Energy, the Proceedings of numerous international conferences, and others listed on the website which I am not allowed to mention on this forum.

Where have I or any other moderator told you that there are some things you're not allowed to mention here at EvC Forum? You have swerved off-topic on many occasions and so have been requested many times to confine your discussion in each thread to the topic of that thread. You have never been told that there are things you can't mention or discuss at EvC Forum.

I now require that you post a response to this message at Report discussion problems here: No.2 within 24 hours or be suspended for a week. In that thread you will post a message indicating precisely the message or messages where you were told which things you can't mention or discuss at EvC Forum, or you will post that you misspoke or were mistaken.

Anything else and I will suspend you for a week.

Please, no replies to this message in this thread.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Viv Pope, posted 01-02-2010 3:43 PM Viv Pope has taken no action

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 240 of 268 (541370)
01-02-2010 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Viv Pope
01-02-2010 6:25 PM


Viv Pope Suspended for 1 Week for Persistent Off-topic Discussion
Viv Pope writes:

I've been racking my brains as to why it is that in 2009 a simple, serious and straightforward suggestion of the non-velocity of light evoked so much reflexive hostility.

Viv, I don't know why this is proving so difficult for you to understand. This thread is not about your perceptions of how you're being treated. It's about issues related to the speed of light. If you feel you're being met with undue hostility then the proper thread for even mentioning the possibility is Report discussion problems here: No.2.

See you in a week.

Edited by Admin, : Typo.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Viv Pope, posted 01-02-2010 6:25 PM Viv Pope has taken no action

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 261 of 268 (742596)
11-22-2014 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by justatruthseeker
11-22-2014 10:31 AM


Topic Reminder
Hi JustATruthSeeker,

Instead of posting off-topic messages here and elsewhere, could you please take your electric universe discussion to the thread you were using last year: The cosmic conspiracy. Thanks.

To everyone else: please, no responses to JustATruthSeeker in this thread.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by justatruthseeker, posted 11-22-2014 10:31 AM justatruthseeker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by justatruthseeker, posted 11-23-2014 1:23 AM Admin has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12792
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 265 of 268 (742720)
11-23-2014 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by justatruthseeker
11-23-2014 1:23 AM


Re: Topic Reminder
Hi JustATruthSeeker,

I'm not a participant in the discussion. I don't have a position on the topic. I'm moderating, not discussing.

It is the practice here at EvC Forum to request that members who have one answer for everything to confine their advocacy for that answer to a single thread. You appear to be a member who has one answer for everything, namely the electric universe. Therefore I'm asking you to confine your participation to the The cosmic conspiracy. thread. Or you can propose a new thread over at Proposed New Topics and I will review your proposal as quickly as practical.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by justatruthseeker, posted 11-23-2014 1:23 AM justatruthseeker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by justatruthseeker, posted 11-26-2014 9:18 PM Admin has seen this message

  
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