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Author Topic:   How many churches are necessary?
hooah212002
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Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 1 of 65 (540182)
12-22-2009 3:45 PM


So, while making my normal drive to take the kids to school the other morning, I took note of the number of churches I saw. Mind you, my town is rather small. population: 8,000 as of July last year. here is a map, courtesy of google, of all the churches in town. (can't upload image to photobucket, work won't allow it.)

Suffice to say, why is there a necessity for soooo frikkin many churches, all reading the same book? Is there that much confusion as to what jesus said? Is there that much confusion as to what you are supposed to do to please god? Would not just one church be sufficient?


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by slevesque, posted 12-24-2009 2:33 PM hooah212002 has responded
 Message 9 by purpledawn, posted 12-25-2009 6:54 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 10 by ICANT, posted 12-25-2009 10:24 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-25-2009 12:40 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 15 by jaywill, posted 01-02-2010 7:02 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 31 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-29-2010 9:17 AM hooah212002 has responded
 Message 38 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-29-2010 12:14 PM hooah212002 has responded
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hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 4 of 65 (540378)
12-24-2009 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by slevesque
12-24-2009 2:33 PM


What I am asking myself is is your situation the norm in america ?

The town I grew up in (of approximately the same size) had a similar number of churches.

And also, does it really change anything at all?

What should it change?

I mean, the muslims are all unified in their doctrinal beliefs{snip}

Are you certain about that? I think you may want to brush up on your knowledge of Islam. Or are you saying ALL muslims are radical fanatics like the ones blowing themselves up for Allah?

{snip}I don't think you give them any more or less possibility of having the truth then the christians ...

You're right, I don't. But I don't live in a muslim neighbourhood so I can't make note of how many different Muslim denomonations/churches there are, can I?

My main point, which I think I made in the OP, was: why the need for so many denomonations? Each one of you makes the claim to know "the truth" but hardly any of you agree on the finer points, the nitty gritty.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by slevesque, posted 12-24-2009 2:33 PM slevesque has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by slevesque, posted 12-24-2009 3:57 PM hooah212002 has responded
 Message 23 by Peg, posted 03-27-2010 8:22 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 6 of 65 (540393)
12-24-2009 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by slevesque
12-24-2009 3:57 PM


Well, isn't the implied question of your OP ''If the Bible is true, why are their so many different denominations about what it says ?''

Somewhat, but not quite. My question is: why are there so many different viewpoints about the same book, each one of you saying it is "the truth". if it really is "the truth", and only one god said it, what gives?

Hence my question; Does it change anything at all ? If the truth of the Bible (or any religious book)) relies on how many different doctrinal opinions about it, then I guess the Bible is near the very bottom, and the Quran at the very top.

If you say so. I am not very versed in the different readings of the Quran, but I don't think ALL muslims read it the same. Are you saying ALL muslims are extremists?

But of course, my opinion is that it does not change anything. Their could be a gazillion different opinions about the Bible, and it could still be true. And their could be only one concensus and still be wrong.

But each denomonation say there version is "the truth". Theydon't say "well, this is MY opinion on what the bible means".

Are you certain about that? I think you may want to brush up on your knowledge of Islam. Or are you saying ALL muslims are radical fanatics like the ones blowing themselves up for Allah?

That's why I specified doctrinal beliefs, and not solely beliefs. Muslims all have pretty much the same doctrinal beliefs, but they apply them differently.

It is a bit similar then the christians who say:''Yess the Bible teaches against homosexual practice, but it was in a different culture and since the culture changed, so should the Bible's teaching about homosexuality''. They agree on what the Bible doctrinally teaches, but decide not to apply it.

Same thing happens for liberal muslims, but on a bigger scale. They agree on what the Quran teaches doctrinally, but decide not to apply it because ''the society has evolved''.

Of course, this is a big generalization on my part, and there may be exceptions to this. Or I could be wrong about liberal muslims (I don't live in a muslim neighbourhood either).

This is pretty much my point. christianity does the same thing. All the while each group drilling home that what that particular group teaches is "THE truth".

If the bible is open for opinion, that opens the door to question god's meaning. Is that what you are implying?

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by slevesque, posted 12-24-2009 3:57 PM slevesque has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by slevesque, posted 12-24-2009 4:31 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 8 of 65 (540400)
12-24-2009 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by slevesque
12-24-2009 4:31 PM


Well I don't know to what extent you consider someone a christian.

So who (besides this god fella, of course) gets to decide who are the real christians? You and iano both seem to be in this same crowd of deciding who gets to be a "real" christian and who's not.

There was another thread where peg pointed out to two different versions of the bible having two different words in the same passage. the different word changed practically the whole meaning of the passage.

But some other thing are quite complicated. And although they are sometimes very minor things, this is where christians tend to gather with those who think the same.

but alot of the time, they are BIG details. Such as the trinity. It's kind of a big deal what forms YOUR god takes, isn't it? is jesus just a man? Is he god? is he god's son? Almost all of you say something different. ICANT has a different take on creationism than damn near the lot of you. Some say 6 literal days, some says 6 figurative days.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by slevesque, posted 12-24-2009 4:31 PM slevesque has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by slevesque, posted 12-26-2009 11:36 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 21 of 65 (552246)
03-27-2010 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Sparcz1978
03-27-2010 4:42 PM


They are called Christians in their Mouth but not in their works...

This is what I love about you guys. You all say this. You all have your own differing opinions on the same book, yet you all say every other christian is wrong....except for you.

Way to keep it real. Keep it fresh.


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Sparcz1978, posted 03-27-2010 4:42 PM Sparcz1978 has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 24 of 65 (552294)
03-28-2010 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Peg
03-27-2010 8:22 PM


You say "they" as if you aren't guilty of the same.....

(hint: you are "they")


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Peg, posted 03-27-2010 8:22 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Peg, posted 03-28-2010 5:24 AM hooah212002 has responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 27 of 65 (552367)
03-28-2010 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Peg
03-28-2010 5:24 AM


So says every other christian on this board. Hell, probably in the world. Do you not understand the arrogance/hypocrisy in "The No True Scotsman" fallacy?


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Peg, posted 03-28-2010 5:24 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Peg, posted 03-29-2010 7:42 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 36 of 65 (552463)
03-29-2010 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by ZenMonkey
03-29-2010 9:17 AM


The second reason goes to a deeper part of human nature. As evidenced by each every one of the Christian posters on this thread, Christians (except maybe the softie liberal ones) love to play the game of "I know the Truth, it's those other guys who are All Wrong." It must be because they believe that they're playing for the ultimate stakes of their Eternal Souls, rather than just who's football club is best, that makes it so much more satisfying to know that they're on the winning side. After all, the losers get to burn in Hell. That must make being right feel really good.

That is pretty much what I was trying to point out. Perhaps I underestimated the willfulness of the christian posters in admittance of that fact. I suppose I didn't realize they were so open about it.


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-29-2010 9:17 AM ZenMonkey has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 39 of 65 (552486)
03-29-2010 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by New Cat's Eye
03-29-2010 12:14 PM


It'd ruin the economy!

All churches do is suck money from the economy anyways. Look at Greece. They wised up and are going to start taxing churches. Of course, their economy IS in the toilet.

I know you were being sarcastic, but I had to say it.


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-29-2010 12:14 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 41 of 65 (552510)
03-29-2010 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by jaywill
03-29-2010 3:16 PM


A few things we should be willing to die for......

.....But if you want to be called "brother" and you deny that Jesus is Divinity or that the Bible is the word of God, then we will have a problem. The divinity of Christ is not something I will be accomodating with. ........

I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the implications of your statement....Are you condoning violence against your fellow man for having a different belief than yours?


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by jaywill, posted 03-29-2010 3:16 PM jaywill has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by jaywill, posted 03-29-2010 6:44 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 44 of 65 (552549)
03-29-2010 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by jaywill
03-29-2010 6:44 PM


I find it odd that you all are willing to die for religion. This natural life is the only one you have.


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by jaywill, posted 03-29-2010 6:44 PM jaywill has not yet responded

    
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