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Author Topic:   The Grand Theory of Life
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3917 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 42 of 77 (539927)
12-20-2009 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Peg
12-16-2009 3:58 AM


life
Hi Peg!
In some way, the understanding of molecular biology does put evolution on shakey ground because even the simplest life forms are extremely complex making it highly unlikely that they developed without guidance in an organic soup.
I see you are getting ganged up on again; and I'm sure you are also very busy not celebrating anything this time of year. So I'm perfectly happy to be patient. But when you get the chance, could you tell me what you consider life?
I don't mean some confusing definition, what I need to know is where to draw the line. What is the least complex thing you consider life, and/or the most complex thing you would consider non-life, in other words.
Here, I will make it even easier. Are rats alive? How about frogs? Fish? Insects? Leafy plants? Ferns? Blue-green algae? Ricketsia? Archaea? Complex DNA viruses? Simple RNA viruses? PNA chains? Polypeptide micro-spheres? Liposomes? Catalytic reactions?
Note that all of these can reproduce themselves, quite well but never quite perfectly. All but the 2 parasites on the list, ricketsia and DNA viruses, can do it without the assistance of any other species. (These two can't do anything without a host, they become dormant.)
Showing where the line is to be drawn ought to move this part of the discussion over from talking-about-talking to actual substance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Peg, posted 12-16-2009 3:58 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Peg, posted 12-21-2009 6:52 AM Iblis has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3917 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 57 of 77 (540764)
12-28-2009 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Peg
12-28-2009 6:36 PM


Pre-NA World
RNA and DNA are necessary for reproduction
False. Catalytic reactions reproduce by spreading to adjacent power sources, liposomes by growing larger and splitting, polypeptide micro-spheres by growing denser and budding. These processes are precursors to the elements of cell reproduction associated with enzymes, membranes, and genes respectively.
Working in conjunction (a polypeptide core in a lipid bubble containing catalysts and raw material) this pre-life can synthesize PNA chains which will mutate and interact with other chemicals in a variety of ways. The development of the ribosome is what leads to the predecessor of "life as we know it" known as the RNA world. Further transcription error by RNA in the presence of thymine produces DNA, a more stable compound for storage purposes, which allows the RNA to specialize in transcription and enzyme management.
These earliest life forms (archaea) require a radiant power source or simple sugars, they do not eat in a modern sense. Further mutations lead to true bacteria, which are not so dependent, as they can eat each other. This causes them to begin sharing genes laterally, as a bacteria which has been consumed is an infection and thus core material is accrued. This is a preliminary to what will become breeding/conjugation, in which organisms of the same species exchange genetic material; bacteria don't distinguish between species, whatever they eat they potentially gain genes from.
One of these co-infective bacteria, the ricketsia family, specializes in invading other organisms, developing methods for breaching the cell membrane and living on inside their host without lateral absorption. And one of these specialists, the proto-mitochondrion, works its way back down the chain and successfully infects a more sophisticated version of archaea, producing the ancestor of the earliest eukaryotes.
Bacteria and now protozoans have already developed in many cases into tissue-like cultures but because of lateral transfer there is no reason to expect the members of such a culture to be genetically identical. Then one group of eukaryotes develop, and share laterally and conjugationally, a series of homeotic genes which make it possible for individual cells to specialize. Organisms which are already differentiating via anterior asymmetry and external irregularities like flagella are thereby enabled to grow larger and fill more niches by using different cells for each separate function instead of confining it all to a single unit. Further tissues which develop after this point share the same genetic makeup, and lateral transfer begins to become less relevant, but never disappears.
Worms, grubs, fish, salamanders, lizards, shrews, lemurs, monkeys, apes, us.
Edited by Iblis, : jot and tittle

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Peg, posted 12-28-2009 6:36 PM Peg has not replied

  
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