Species/Kinds (for Peg...and others)

While were at it, why don't we start pointing out the veritable conga-line of critters that Adam had to personally name in Genesis? This list has to include all the kinds on the Ark plus any land or air creatures which didn't fit (dinosaurs, extinct mammals etc)How many critters ? And how long did it take to think up original names for each one?At 10000 kinds, and 60 seconds per critter it would have taken Adam a whole week without a break, you don't have a "well God got the animals to walk onto the Ark by themselves, so Noah could focus on other things" excuse here, Adam had to personally inspect each and every one.Don't get me started on how long it would have taken if kind = species, it'd take Adam 10 years nonstop just to do the 5,000,000 Beetles.Adam : "Goddamit, haven't I seen that one before??"
God : "No, I assure you this is a different one"Edited by jasonlang, : No reason given.

Hi greyseal, It is simple.If you breed two horses a male and female you get a horse.If you breed two dogs male and female you get dog pups.If you breed two wolves male and female you get wolf pups.It makes no differece what male and female of a kind you breed their offspring will be the same kind.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

ICANT, I'll take it slowly because you seem to be having trouble* dogs and dogs produce DOG kinds* wolves and wolves produce WOLF kinds* kinds are separated by god and there can never be new kinds because that's NOT possible - only god has that power* dogs and wolves can produce FERTILE offspring - but what are they?they cannot be dogs because only "dogs and dogs" make dogs.they cannot be wolves because only "wolves and wolves" make wolves.they cannot be a new kind, because THAT'S. NOT. POSSIBLE.so, what are they?Edited by greyseal, : minor correction.

So what kind are the fertile offspring of a Dog/Wolf pairing?Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

so what, given the simple fact that kinds are kinds are kinds and new kinds can never be created, are the offspring of dogs and wolves?or are they a special cop-out non-kind of animal abomination?

I think maybe my sloppy terminology of "pre-evolved adaptability " wasn't the best expression, and caused some confusion as to my meaning. Let me clarify the thinking behind my statement.By "pre-evolved" i meant inherited genetic traits, and by "adaptability" i mean "mechanisms for individual phenotypic change in response to environmental change".In the case of the guppies there could conceivably be a mechanism whereby the presence of predators causes increased stress hormones, which causes more eggs to be produced, in the same way that stress causes some plants to produce more seed.So, my assertion would now read : "existing creatures possess inherited genetic traits which enhance phenotypic (non-genetic) adaptation to varying individual circumstances."I don't think this is controversial at all.

Hi jasonlang, It seems I do.1. god created distinct kinds.Correct.2. These kinds can never cross with other kindsI never said that.I have said and say again for the last time.If you take a male dog and a female dog and breed them you will get a litter of dog pups. You will never get anything but dog pups.3. you listed dog kind and wolf kind as seperate kindsCorrect. They are separate kinds.4. point 3 contradicts point 2 and point 1, given that dogs and wolves can be crossed.But I never stated your point 2 which is a strawman you created.Your point three and point 1 state the same thing.5. Conclusion : dogs and wolves must be the same kind (canine kind).Can you breed two dogs and get a wolf pup?Can you breed two wolves and get a dog pup?If you can then they are the same kind.If you can't then they are a different kind.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

If I recall correctly, there is some type of beetle or ant or similar which grow normally without some sort of natural armour or something, but if the mother is stressed the offspring grow this extra carapace or somesuch - I think I heard about it on this board even.I am most certainly not remembering it properly, but it is a certainty so your hypothesis is true.STOP THE PRESSES!here it is: Begley: Was Darwin Wrong About Evolution?there's probably a better, direct link to the article in question, but this is what I was talking about.Edited by greyseal, : No reason given.

So new kinds can be created, ergo the creationist position of "variation within kinds only" is proven false.Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

so, and I'm infering from what you've been saying:* these different "kinds" can sometimes breed and sometimes can't, sometimes look very similar and sometimes don't* new kinds can arise through crossbreeding where they can* changes can and do arise in populations so the kinds change a lot over time (microevolution!) and* may or may not be able to interbreed with ancestral species because of all this crossbreeding and new-kind-creatingumm, ICANT, but that sounds a hell of a lot closer to evolution than I think you meant it to.

If two whites breed, they have white children.If two blacks breed, they have black children.If a white and a black breed, what do they have? Human children.

Hi ZenMonkey, Well it is not a dog kind.It is not a wolf kind.Therefore it is a Hybrid that can go on and produce many more hybrids.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

A new kind, then. Got it!

Hi greyseal, According to whom?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

You do realize by postulating a separate creation for both Wolves and Dogs you are not only saying you know better than science, you're also saying you know better than the Baraminologists who study this for a living. So there were two wolves, and two dogs and two jackals and two coyotes on the Ark ??Two animals "doing what comes naturally" is defintely NOT "human intervention". Wolves and dogs could plausibly be referred to as a single species, as their offspring seems 100% viable.If you think lions and housecats are the same Baramin, how on Earth are dogs and wolves seperate ? There's no way in hell little tabby's gonna mate with a lion, artificial insemination or not, but you claim they're all the same.EDIT : btw look at the DNA results from testing dogs, several lines including the German Shephard have MORE in common with wolf DNA than they have in common with the line including Golden Retrivers/Labradors, so is s German shepherd a Wolf or a Dog ?? : Domestication of the dog - WikipediaI'm sure you weren't aware of patting a pet wolf last time you visited a friend who had a German ShepardEdited by jasonlang, : Added further source / detailEdited by jasonlang, : No reason given.