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Author Topic:   The astronomical impact on terrestrial evolution
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3915 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 3 of 15 (541251)
01-01-2010 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Briterican
12-29-2009 3:43 PM


More abiogenesis
This is an excellent topic idea!
To your point 2 regarding the largely unsupported theory that life may have come to earth in the form of microbes riding on a comet's tail or Martian meteorites, I would like to add a couple of more substantial suggestions:
First, the near-ubiquitous "starseed transmissions", ie that the complex molecules which contribute much to our chemical composition are revealed by spectrographic analysis to be products manufactured by the sun, and therefore came to us either as a result of previous supernova events or else due to yet-unspecified stellar explosions or expansions on a more local level;
And second, that the current best candidate for a "natural" PNA, polycyclic/nuclear aromatics (PAH), known to be common in the environment of early earth, were recently determined by similar spectro-analysis to be the product of distant nebulae; these guys are a real winner in terms of primitive information-binding, having not only a similar stacking pattern but one with the exact same "groove" size as the later, derivative molecules of nucleic acid.
PAH world hypothesis - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Briterican, posted 12-29-2009 3:43 PM Briterican has replied

Replies to this message:
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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3915 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 5 of 15 (541299)
01-02-2010 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Briterican
01-02-2010 7:54 AM


Re: How important are the seasons, and the moon?
Sorry I didn't link the actual discovery part before
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon - Wikipedia
In January 2004 (at the 203rd Meeting of the American Astronomical Society), it was reported[11] that a team led by A. Witt of the University of Toledo, Ohio studied ultraviolet light emitted by the Red Rectangle nebula and found the spectral signatures of anthracene and pyrene (no other such complex molecules had ever before been found in space). This discovery was considered confirmation of a hypothesis that as nebulae of the same type as the Red Rectangle approach the ends of their lives, convection currents cause carbon and hydrogen in the nebulae's core to get caught in stellar winds, and radiate outward.
This may have some application to your seasonal or cyclic interest, as meteor bombardments follow repetitive patterns.
I also wish I understood more about the connection of the moon to biology on the Earth. Menstrual cycles are just one example of a direct connection between the moon and biology on the Earth, and I am curious if any research has shown how the moon's tidal pull may have impacted the evolution of these cycles in Earthbound creatures.
I regret to inform you that some of your ideas about tides may be based on myth. You can see me ranting about this a bit more here. Message 433
If you use reason in this matter, you will note that the menstrual cycle of cats and dogs is quasi-seasonal rather than quasi-lunar. In other words, whatever influence these cycles may have on reproductive biology is not a result of gravitational displacement somehow being directly apparent to the animal, nor is it derived from a period when we were single-celled or genuinely amphibious; it is more recent, and varies from species to species.
This becomes clearer when we look at our relatives.
The duration of the menstrual cycle varies with species; about 29 days in orang-utans, about 30 days in gorillas and about 37 days in chimpanzees. Incidentally, the duration of estrus also varies in these species; about 4-6 days in female orang-utans, about 2-3 days in gorillas and about 10-14 days in chimpanzees. Both the menstrual cycle and estrus vary in duration somewhat among females of the same species.
Primate Info Net – Wisconsin National Primate Research Center – UW—Madison
This implies that the cycles are derived only secondarily from the moon, specifically its light; and that their primary cause is due to longterm species hunting and eating behavior. Modern chimpanzees do not hunt.

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3915 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 7 of 15 (541318)
01-02-2010 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by slevesque
01-02-2010 1:50 PM


The Big Smack
Also, while reading your OP I did find that the ''overwhelming evidence fore multiple collisions that caused mass extinctions'' was a bit of elephant hurling, since the most supported one (dinosaur extinction) is still a pretty controversial theory in the scientific community.
Here's the theory
In 1980, a team of researchers consisting of Nobel prize-winning physicist Luis Alvarez, his son geologist Walter Alvarez, and chemists Frank Asaro and Helen Michel discovered that sedimentary layers found all over the world at the Cretaceous—Tertiary boundary contain a concentration of iridium many times greater than normal (30 times and 130 times background in the two sections originally studied). Iridium is extremely rare in the earth's crust because it is a siderophile, and therefore most of it travelled with the iron as it sank into the earth's core during planetary differentiation. As iridium remains abundant in most asteroids and comets, the Alvarez team suggested that an asteroid struck the earth at the time of the K—T boundary.
Here's the data
Subsequent research, however, identified the Chicxulub Crater buried under Chicxulub on the coast of Yucatn, Mexico as the impact crater which matched the Alvarez hypothesis dating. Identified in 1990 based on the work of Glen Penfield done in 1978, this crater is oval, with an average diameter of about 180 kilometers (112 mi), about the size calculated by the Alvarez team.
And here's the controversy
In 1997, paleontologist Sankar Chatterjee drew attention to the proposed and much larger 600 km (370 mi) Shiva crater and the possibility of a multiple-impact scenario.
In 2007, a hypothesis was put forth that argued the impactor that killed the dinosaurs 65 Ma ago belonged to the Baptistina family of asteroids.
Cretaceous—Paleogene extinction event - Wikipedia
There's a bit more here
Several other craters also appear to have been formed about the time of the K—T boundary. This suggests the possibility of near simultaneous multiple impacts, perhaps from a fragmented asteroidal object, similar to the Shoemaker-Levy 9 cometary impact with Jupiter. In addition to the 180-km (112 mi) Chicxulub Crater, there is the 24-km (15 mi) Boltysh crater in Ukraine (65.17 0.64 Ma), the 20-km (12 mi) Silverpit crater, a suspected impact crater in the North Sea (60—65 Ma), and the controversial and much bigger 600-km (370 mi) Shiva crater. Any other craters that might have formed in the Tethys Ocean would have been obscured by tectonic events like the relentless northward drift of Africa and India.
Cretaceous—Paleogene extinction event - Wikipedia

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 Message 6 by slevesque, posted 01-02-2010 1:50 PM slevesque has replied

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3915 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 12 of 15 (541355)
01-02-2010 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Briterican
01-02-2010 4:15 PM


Tide and Time
Just for grins... check out this crazy quote from a website on menstruation
Look, you understand that that site is about Magic, right?
slevesque writes:
Aren't lunar tides supposed to have helped the mixing of the primordial soup to help abiogenesis ?
Now here we get to something where the tidal action has a real influence. Let's take a closer look at the dark hours of the pre-dawn of the PNA world
In 1957, Sidney Fox demonstrated that dry mixtures of amino acids could be encouraged to polymerize upon exposure to moderate heat. When the resulting polypeptides, or proteinoids, were dissolved in hot water and the solution allowed to cool, they formed small spherical shells about 2 μm in diametermicrospheres. Under appropriate conditions, microspheres will bud new spheres at their surfaces.
Microparticle - Wikipedia
Note that the amino acids form wet in the "soup". Then they have to be dry to become polypeptides. Then they have to be dissolved again to become microspheres. Further cycles of wet and dry are necessary for the best results in growing and budding.
These protocells are baby genes, without NAs but copying rather than splitting. In some ways, the prions being discussed in Scripps Florida scientists show 'lifeless' prions capable of evolutionary change are a similar dealie, only reduced to parasitism. The microspheres are self-sufficient.
Now let's look at where the real cell membranes come from.
Waves breaking on the shore create a delicate foam composed of bubbles. Winds sweeping across the ocean have a tendency to drive things to shore, much like driftwood collecting on the beach. It is possible that organic molecules were concentrated on the shorelines in much the same way. Shallow coastal waters also tend to be warmer, further concentrating the molecules through evaporation. While bubbles composed mostly of water burst quickly, water containing amphiphiles forms much more stable bubbles, lending more time to the particular bubble to perform these crucial reactions.
Amphiphiles are oily compounds containing a hydrophilic head on one or both ends of a hydrophobic molecule. Some amphiphiles have the tendency to spontaneously form membranes in water. A spherically closed membrane contains water and is a hypothetical precursor to the modern cell membrane. If a protein would increase the integrity of its parent bubble, that bubble had an advantage, and was placed at the top of the natural selection waiting list. Primitive reproduction can be envisioned when the bubbles burst, releasing the results of the 'experiment' into the surrounding medium. Once enough of the 'right stuff' was released into the medium, the development of the first prokaryotes, eukaryotes, and multicellular organisms could be achieved.
Abiogenesis - Wikipedia
This shows a potential for tidal action to affect the formation of lipids containing these primitive proteins, which would reproduce by splitting. That's another step closer to "life as we know it."
Your radioactive beaches are another good example, this time relating to the power source for nucleic acid formation. Some people prefer to point out that the existing archaea, the earliest form of "real" life, are famous as extremophiles and therefore probably developed using the energy of earth's magma. But even if this were the case, tides would still have an effect, as lava is a high-volume liquid subject to the usual gravitational displacement.
There seems to be plenty of notions about how life got its start, but they obviously can't all be right.
Sure they can! Or at least, a lot of them. See, they are talking about the origin of various components. Which one came first, and helped the others along, is what the argument might be about. I have skipped the "sandwich" beyond mentioning archaea, but pre-enzymes came from somewhere too, somewhere before RNA.
Here, have a look at this. Pre-NA World
Note that even once "life" finishes beginning, it remains in the oceans for billions of years. Tidal displacement remains a primary influence throughout this period. Once the weeds and then critters start swarming out onto the land, they continue to have a close association with bodies of water for millions and millions more. Most still do.
Edited by Iblis, : context reduced

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Iblis
Member (Idle past 3915 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 15 of 15 (541373)
01-02-2010 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Minnemooseus
01-02-2010 8:53 PM


Re: The impact the period and not the whole sentence?
I wonder about (but am far too lazy to research) the the pre-impact environmental changes?
Marine regression and increased volcanic activity. But there's a huge debate now as to how much of this was before the first impacts and how much was a result of it.
Reductions in sea level wipe out marine species, reducing the food chain and oxygen supply. But many of the proposed impacts were into the ocean, so is it a cause or an effect?
In much the same way, the Deccan Traps in western and central India show huge amounts of magma during this time period, indicating probably a genuine mantle plume. This sort of thing will produce catastrophic changes in the atmosphere of the whole planet. On the other hand, the Shiva crater is right off the coast there. What happens when you punch an orange?
Still, the impact certainly seemed (weasel word alert) to pretty much put a period at the end of the dinosaur sentence.
Not so much a period as an ellipse. The first impact, the iridium meteor, wreaked havoc on the biosphere. But further hits and resultant changes over the next 300,000 years are what kept them from coming back again the way they did after the Jurassic.

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