Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,397 Year: 3,654/9,624 Month: 525/974 Week: 138/276 Day: 12/23 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What gives God the right to be "holy"?
iano
Member (Idle past 1961 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 136 of 138 (538002)
12-02-2009 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Larni
12-02-2009 8:28 AM


Re: Blessing & Curses.
But you are using the core 'good drive' that you call conscience as a point of evidence in this discussion.
I am. And that driver towards good, and that thing which informs us as to whether we have done good or not is God sourced. Says the Bible - from which we are arguing.
If you want to suppose the conscience a godless trait then that's okay - it just doesn't have a relevance to this discussion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Larni, posted 12-02-2009 8:28 AM Larni has not replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3664 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 137 of 138 (539728)
12-19-2009 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by iano
11-29-2009 3:15 PM


Apologies - I was severely distracted from this thread.
cavediver writes:
The evangelical Christian god is not good in any sane view of the word - he is simply a bastardisation of far too many contradictory concepts, and the immense cracks in his definition are shoddily plastered over with pseudo-theological christo-babble
The peanut gallery might be impressed but you've not provided much substance to the "any sane view" view.
Ok, let's look at the sane view...
Suffice for us to agree that the merest hint of unkindness, selfishness, envy, malice... is "evil".
Most sane folk understand that evil is objectionable.
Most sane folk have no problem with folk receiving the consequences of choice.
I would venture to guess that most sane folks do not think that the MEREST HINT of unkindness, selfishness, envy, malice is sufficient to warrant the consequence of ETERNAL SUFFERING IN HELL.
It is quite clear from Genesis that god had no problem being in the vicinity of Adam & Eve post-fall - this whole concept of god's required separation, holiness, and inability to be associated with sin has grown in the telling, until we arrive at the modern flaw-ridden and self-contradictory picture you paint.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by iano, posted 11-29-2009 3:15 PM iano has not replied

  
caldron68
Member (Idle past 3862 days)
Posts: 79
From: USA
Joined: 08-26-2007


Message 138 of 138 (541367)
01-02-2010 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by iano
12-02-2009 1:55 PM


Re: Blessing & Curses.
iano writes:
It comes from an act of freewill - freewill being a creation of God.
God creates freewill
God instructs x not be done (because it is against his will)
x is done in spite of God instructing it not be done.
x is done because a freewill is free to do what God instructs not to be done.
x needn't necessarily be done - the will is free not to do x.
x = evil, evil being defined as that which opposes Gods will.
x isn't created by God directly, it's created by God indirectly, via something else which God creates, freewill
the buck for x (insofar as promised negative consequences are laid at someones feet) stop at the freewill who chose to do x.
God, as I say above, cannot be tied to the creation of evil directly. The buck stops with freewill.
Hold the phone! God did create evil, in the form of Satan, and he let that evil loose on the face of the Earth. He (Satan) was even there in the very beginning, tempting Eve to take the forbidden fruit.
So, to say that freewill is the end all and that God did not create "evil" is inaccurate. God has loaded the odds against us by not only demanding perfection, but by also introducing a variable that guarantees that sin will be committed.
Now, you can take the stance that God didn't create Satan and that Lucifer did, but personally I feel that this is a hand waving cop out. God is omniscient and knew full well what his creation (Lucifer) would do and what his impact on man would be.
Cheers
Edited by caldron68, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by iano, posted 12-02-2009 1:55 PM iano has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024