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Author Topic:   What does 'The Gospel' mean to you - in 200 words or less
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 76 of 93 (540313)
12-23-2009 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Brian
12-13-2009 5:58 AM


Re: The Gospel\; An abomination
I think the Gospels are a testimony to man's imagination, ignorance, and out and out evil.
The 4 anonymous gospels we use are just 4 of over 30 gospels in existence, these were handpicked to serve a specific purpose and have no magical origins.
The gospels clearly show many signs of editing and are rife with historical and textual errors, they were invented to support the messianic claims of a failed preacher called Jesus.
The propaganda and lies that can be found in the gospels is testimony to man's imagination and to the ignorance of the reader who thinks that the events narrated in them in some way resembles the truth. The texts themselves are extremely tedious, horrendously boring, and unhistorical. The obvious attempts by the unknown authors to try and make Jesus' life fit OT prophecy is laughable at best, the many prophecies ripped out of context, the 'prophecies' which are not even prophecies that were invented, and the fictional stories (e.g. Brababbas episode) have a more sinister side to them.
The authors of the Gospel probably had no idea of the horrors that their fairy tales would have on mankind, I think if they knew then they would not have written the majority of the texts.
The gospel has not been a blessing on mankind, it has, in fact, been an abomination. The lies made up by the authors of the gospel are responsible for some of the most horrific events in human history. The Jewish nation for example has been persecuted for centuries for rejecting the failed messiah Jesus. If people would take the time to study the Bible and the history of the times and places it was written in then they would realise that the Jews were quite correct in rejecting Jesus as He fulfilled no messianic prophecies and He was clearly not the Messiah that the Jews were and still are waiting on. The determination of the gospel writers to make the Jewish people into scapegoats for their failed messiah has resulted in many millions of these people being murdered. Of course there are many millions of other peoples who have been slaughtered in the name of Jesus and that just adds to the ignorance of the followers of the Gospel.
Then we come to ignorance. I think that when these books were written then the contents were not much different to the contents of other religions, but in this day and age when so much of the Bible has been demonstrated to be untrue and with the rise of the sciences there really is no excuse for viewing the Gospel as anything other than ancient propagana, camp fire tales, and legends.
The Gospel is amazing when you are 5 years old, but for adults to believe it is just ignorance and desperation.
Time to put the Gospel on the shelf of fiction where it belongs.
How does this insight into the Gospel help you in your daily life? Does it make you more wary of confidence tricks, for example, and less likely to be hypnotized by recursive pseudo-logic? Does it improve your social and ethical relationship with others, and if so, in what way?
Expand on this question in any way you see fit to improve our understanding of the value of the Gospel and your understanding of it in your actual experiences in life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Brian, posted 12-13-2009 5:58 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Brian, posted 12-28-2009 6:30 AM Iblis has not replied
 Message 84 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 5:12 PM Iblis has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


(1)
Message 77 of 93 (540725)
12-28-2009 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Iblis
12-23-2009 4:01 PM


Re: The Gospel\; An abomination
Sorry about the delay in replying, despite the holiday I am still really busy here, I will get round to replying to your other posts as well, I haven’t forgotten about them.
How does this insight into the Gospel help you in your daily life?
I suppose the big difference today is the intellectual freedom.
But at my initial recognition of the Gospels as false history and Jesus not being who I thought He was I was genuinely stunned. I had been a xian for the best part of 20 years but I had never really questioned the Bible at all, I just took it, as many people do, as being the Word of God and the information within was more or less accurate. As a child I even believed the Noah narratives, but I think I recognized quite soon that this could not be an accurate historical event. But I was torn, when almost every piece of text you research turns out to be untrue then what you have believed to be true for a long time is difficult to let go of, especially when it is in regard to your faith, something that is central to your very being.
Does it make you more wary of confidence tricks, for example, and less likely to be hypnotized by recursive pseudo-logic?
What it made me more wary of was the invention of history by humans, and not only in regard to the Bible. It does equip you with the necessary tools to investigate historical events from a more or less objective viewpoint. I know complete objectivity is impossible, but one of the good things about going to uni is that your research skills are honed, lecturers do help you to recognize where you have not given a balanced approach. So, one of the main things it has done is to allow me to step back from any historical text and scrutinise it carefully, look at the supporting evidence, and then come to a conclusion that I find plausible and supportable.
When I initially decided to investigate the Bible I did not have the qualifications or the finances to be able to go to uni, so my initial research was a little bit limited in regard to sources. But I had decided at the age of 20 (for various personal reasons) to look at the Bible from a fresh perspective. I had decided that I was taking a fresh look at this collection of texts and it was not going to receive any special position, it was going to be treated like any other text.
One of the first things that surprised me was that every single Gospel is anonymous, and every single Old Testament book we have is also anonymous! I know this is no big deal now, but at the time I had not criticized the Bible in any way at all, it was not to be questioned. Other things followed, such as the out of context ‘prophecies’ the huge amount of contradictions, the reworking of many of the texts, the removal of books that had been included in earlier Bibles, the obvious failure of Jesus to keep the promises He made in the NT, such as the imminent kingdom. Although my initial research was very basic, when I eventually went to uni a whole new world of research was opened up, and it became so much clearer that I had made the correct decision.
I did much prefer studying the OT at uni, I found the NT to be very boring in comparison. I’ve always been into Egyptian history and archaeology and I have been lucky enough to study these subjects at uni too. What does become clear pretty quickly is that the Bible was not recording accurate history, and that is not really a problem for me now as most nations were recording exaggerated or false histories. What the recognition that the Gospel authors were recording false history and manipulating the OT did do was to awaken me to the wonderful area of the psyche of the authors in the distant past. It is so clear that whoever wrote the Gospels wrote them with the intention of changing the social and political world that they lived in, they were not interested in recording an accurate past they were interested in promoting Jesus as the catalyst to change. I find it interesting that when Jesus was supposed to have been performing all the works credited to Him by the Gospel authors He was able to be completely invisible in the historical record, no one else even knew He was there. Now given the remarkable events associated with His life I find that a bit too difficult to swallow. A 3 hour eclipse, the dead walking the streets, thousands upon thousands following Him and not a single contemporary account! Not even the Gospels are contemporary.
But it is the easiest thing in the world to sit with a collection of scriptures and invent a history about a human that fitted what the Jewish nation were waiting on. The Messiah had to be from David, let’s make a genealogy up for Him, and they invented several. The messiah had to be born in Bethlehem (although that may not be what Micah 5:2 is saying), so how do they get this Nazareth woman to Bethlehem, they invent a fictional census. The list goes on and on, and I wont bore you as I’m sure you’ve heard most of them before.
But there comes a time when a person has to say that enough is enough, any reasonable person surely has a limit to the intellectual contortions required to believe that Jesus was the messiah. The constant pathetic excuses, so childish and nave, should really not be required if Jesus was who the Gospels say He was. We should not have this ambiguity all the time about almost every single reference to Jesus. The non-stop contradictions, the historical inaccuracies, the ‘well when he said black He actually meant white’ reinterpretations that the gullible swallow up with glee are not a good basis upon which to base a faith.
Does it improve your social and ethical relationship with others, and if so, in what way?
I does make things a bit awkward at times, especially when I have been employed as a tutor at the Uni of Glasgow and I am currently teaching Religious, Moral, and Philosophical Studies at a high school in Scotland. My atheism does go down well with a lot of students and a lot of their parents, they see it as a refreshing approach to a subject that traditionally was not one that students looked forward to.
I do a lot to help others and I feel that this is more honest than anything I ever done as a xian as I am doing it out of caring for others and not from expecting a wee reward from God when I die.
I would say that I am slowly drifting away from my theology research at the moment, it does get repetitive, and once my archaeology masters is complete I may move into something in that area. Ideally a job that combines theology/archaeology would be desirable, perhaps on the origins of ancient Israel, but I will wait and see how things work out.
So, the value of the Gospel for me is that by studying them it demonstrates the ingenuity of man, the ability that man has to manipulate others into believing almost anything. It certainly helps a lot when investigating any historical event as you always have at the back of your mind that if the Gospel writers can invent a messiah then every other historical account cannot be taken at face value either. Everything has to be examined on its own merits, and no historical text should be given any different treatment regardless of what you would like it to say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Iblis, posted 12-23-2009 4:01 PM Iblis has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 78 of 93 (540729)
12-28-2009 7:16 AM


Do you like the writings of Bart Erhman ?

  
OLEGDEI
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 79 of 93 (541429)
01-03-2010 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by iano
11-11-2009 9:31 PM


FAITH
Religion was created by ancient people who were very poorly educated. There was no science and these ancients did their best to explain the mechanism that brought forth life. In today's world the Bible has been called childish by Einstein in a letter to a friend that sold for nearly half a million dollars. No real scientist would even bother reconciling the Bible to Science. Science is based on fact, religion is based on myths as well as lies.
There is an interesting website that I would like to recommend that disproves the Bible step by step, you could visit it at:
http://WWW.SCIENCECLUBOFLONGISLAND.COM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by iano, posted 11-11-2009 9:31 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by iano, posted 01-03-2010 2:58 PM OLEGDEI has replied
 Message 86 by Iblis, posted 01-03-2010 5:40 PM OLEGDEI has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 80 of 93 (541431)
01-03-2010 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by OLEGDEI
01-03-2010 2:29 PM


Re: FAITH
Olegdei writes:
There is an interesting website that I would like to recommend that disproves the Bible step by step, you could visit it at:
http://WWW.SCIENCECLUBOFLONGISLAND.COM
Quite how
quote:
Deut 20: "But you may keep for yourselves, all the women, children and livestock and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you"
.. can be held up in evidence that God "approves of rape" (or that rape is even being referred to in the passage) is, as ever, beyond me. Given the rather lurid pictures attaching to the article, I'm inclined to suppose this site proves more about the mind of the sites owners than it does "disprove the Bible" (whatever that means).
Welcome to EvC by the way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 2:29 PM OLEGDEI has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 3:06 PM iano has replied

  
OLEGDEI
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 81 of 93 (541432)
01-03-2010 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by iano
01-03-2010 2:58 PM


Re: FAITH
The disgusting nonsense that is in the Bible has nothing to do with the mindset of the authors. The disgusting quotes found in the Bible and their embrace by its followers shows the mindset of the believers.
This is explained of how more people have died in the name of Christianity reveals the violent mindset of its followers!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by iano, posted 01-03-2010 2:58 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Iblis, posted 01-03-2010 3:41 PM OLEGDEI has replied
 Message 85 by iano, posted 01-03-2010 5:30 PM OLEGDEI has replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 82 of 93 (541436)
01-03-2010 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by OLEGDEI
01-03-2010 3:06 PM


that IS an interesting gospel you've got there
This is explained of how more people have died in the name of Christianity reveals the violent mindset of its followers!
So basically your argument is that one ignorant modern person who can't construct a sentence is more trustworthy than 26+ ignorant ancient people who can?
We are sorry to have to inform you that your unsolicited application to serve as "ball carrier" has been rejected by the United Antifundamentalist Strategy Society (UASS).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 3:06 PM OLEGDEI has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 5:05 PM Iblis has not replied

  
OLEGDEI
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 83 of 93 (541444)
01-03-2010 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Iblis
01-03-2010 3:41 PM


Re: that IS an interesting gospel you've got there
The 500 plus members and scientists who comprise the Science Club of Long Island are not interested in a couple of dozen ignoramuses who can't afford a website and elected themselves speakers of the intellectually enlightened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Iblis, posted 01-03-2010 3:41 PM Iblis has not replied

  
OLEGDEI
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 84 of 93 (541445)
01-03-2010 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Iblis
12-23-2009 4:01 PM


Re: The Gospel\; An abomination
The writer is correct! With all the nonsense that is in the Bible explains
why the smartest man on Earth - Einstein called the Bible - Childish and for the weak minded.
The article on Einstein's letter is available on http://WWW.SCIENCECLUBOFLONGISLAND.COM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Iblis, posted 12-23-2009 4:01 PM Iblis has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 85 of 93 (541452)
01-03-2010 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by OLEGDEI
01-03-2010 3:06 PM


Re: FAITH
Oleg writes:
The disgusting nonsense that is in the Bible has nothing to do with the mindset of the authors. The disgusting quotes found in the Bible and their embrace by its followers shows the mindset of the believers.
This is explained of how more people have died in the name of Christianity reveals the violent mindset of its followers!
Yes, yes. But that isn't addressing the problem. This site is a place where you support your assertion. Whereas your site claims that this..
quote:
Deut 20: "But you may keep for yourselves, all the women, children and livestock and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you"
..shows God condones rape. But rape isn't mentioned in the passage. Which creates a bit of a problem for your claim. Perhaps it's you who is exhibiting faith..
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 3:06 PM OLEGDEI has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 6:25 PM iano has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 86 of 93 (541453)
01-03-2010 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by OLEGDEI
01-03-2010 2:29 PM


SPAM (it tastes just like Missionary)
Religion was created by ancient people who were very poorly educated.
Bald assertion, demonstrably false.
There was no science and these ancients did their best to explain the mechanism that brought forth life.
Bald assertion, failure to comprehend literary purpose and themes.
In today's world the Bible has been called childish by Einstein
Appeal to authority, talk-show journalistic construction.
in a letter to a friend that sold for nearly half a million dollars.
False implication of value by association.
No real scientist would even bother reconciling the Bible to Science.
Failure to understand purpose and themes, terrible construction.
Science is based on fact, religion is based on myths as well as lies.
False revaluation of the word "myth".
There is an interesting website that I would like to recommend that disproves the Bible step by step, you could visit it at:
Bald assertion, demonstrably false.
General Overview
Horrible web design
Apparently deliberate use of colors that clash
Continuous awful sentence construction
First Page
Horrible, horrible
Dozens of high-resolution astronomical pictures
Takes minutes to load, stalls busy browsers
Evil Bible
Awful layout
List headlines centered, looks like a constrictor digesting
Links a mix of formats
Porn in the Bible
Hideous sentence construction
Actual porn, not just verses, pictures
Actual porn, looks like scanned/stolen from c20 Men's Magazines
Actual porn, low value, some hetero action
Actual porn, no parental warning or age validation
Actual porn
The 500 plus members and scientists who comprise the Science Club of Long Island are not interested in a couple of dozen ignoramuses
Failure to understand simple argument.
who can't afford a website
False implication of value based on ignorance of legitimate web costing.
and elected themselves speakers of the intellectually enlightened.
Recommend emergency IQ test. Greg Hill explains disgarbing during baptism rites as a means of checking for signs of humanity, on the grounds that there are vegetables who walk amongst us in disquise. Case in point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 2:29 PM OLEGDEI has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 6:39 PM Iblis has not replied

  
OLEGDEI
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 87 of 93 (541456)
01-03-2010 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by iano
01-03-2010 5:30 PM


Re: FAITH
The problem with believers is no matter how much evidence you give to disprove them, out of desperation they continue to defend the ridiculous. The question becomes is Religious Fundamentalism a mental disease?
Case in point we give nearly a thousand quotes and you are still stuck on the same one. Try this for size Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil, I the lord do all these things. God creating evil that is a no no, nice God you got there.
Now I know what you are gong to say it is out of context what it really means God created Evil Kenievil.
Try this for size Christ talking to his apostles Luke 19:27 - but those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither and slay them before me. Very nice I suppose that is out of context too and Christ really meant bake them a cherry pie instead. No need to respond, all of us heard these excuses before.
Instead take the 1 million dollar Christian challenge, it will be on the site later this week. No Christian so far has dared to accept. See how tough you are!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by iano, posted 01-03-2010 5:30 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 6:51 PM OLEGDEI has not replied
 Message 90 by Iblis, posted 01-03-2010 6:52 PM OLEGDEI has replied

  
OLEGDEI
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 88 of 93 (541458)
01-03-2010 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Iblis
01-03-2010 5:40 PM


Re: SPAM (it tastes just like Missionary)
More excuses and lies on each point.
Einstein called the Bible childish is a fact.
Science is based on evidence is a fact.
Religion is a myth fact.
We do not have time to argue with Christian fanatics, One of our board members is a world famous shrink and he states religion brainwashing a mental disease. We think that a lot of people here fit into the much needed therapy group.
Later this week we will post a 1 million dollar challenge to Christians.
From the ones we challenged no one dared to accept it.
If you have evidence of a God then come out and prove it scientifically.
We will contact the James Randi Foundation and they will pay one million dollars to anyone you can. On the other hand if you can't then you will owe us the 1 million dollars. Let us see if you are tough enough to accept, otherwise stop wasting our time!
As for the website critique - where is yours?
Okay kiddies back to your mommy! We are done with you, unless you accept the challenge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Iblis, posted 01-03-2010 5:40 PM Iblis has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by RAZD, posted 01-03-2010 8:43 PM OLEGDEI has not replied

  
OLEGDEI
Member (Idle past 5172 days)
Posts: 10
Joined: 01-03-2010


Message 89 of 93 (541460)
01-03-2010 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by OLEGDEI
01-03-2010 6:25 PM


Re: FAITH
Oh by the way the only reason you children favor disrobing for Baptism is that you can enjoy your cheap thrills!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 6:25 PM OLEGDEI has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3895 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 90 of 93 (541461)
01-03-2010 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by OLEGDEI
01-03-2010 6:25 PM


Dr Mabus has an evil twin?
Now I know what you are gong to say it is out of context what it really means God created Evil Kenievil.
Good one! Seriously, awesome!
I suppose what with stabbing you in the fat hairy back and all, I can't just have that one. No worries, I'm stealing it anyway.
out of desperation they continue to defend the ridiculous
You don't defend the ridiculous out of desperation, do you iano? (I've always gotten the impression it was out of contentment and a sense of whatall, that god-flavored stuff you know?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 6:25 PM OLEGDEI has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by OLEGDEI, posted 01-03-2010 7:06 PM Iblis has not replied

  
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