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Author Topic:   Why'd you do it that way, God?
Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 805 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 61 of 137 (541519)
01-04-2010 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 5:35 AM


Re: God is Lawful Good
Sky writes:

history, as told in the scriptures, is important in that it tells what has taken place.

And how do we know which scriptures to believe? There are many different stories, you know, and most of them contradict each other.


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 5:35 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 10:02 AM Parasomnium has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16093
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 62 of 137 (541522)
01-04-2010 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 5:26 AM


Re: True science nonsense again
"Scientists are not embarrassed by behaving rationally. "

LOL! You've not been around Scientists! I've seen them escorted by security out of the building after throwing chairs. I've seem them escorted out for lieing, cheating, and even stealing. Just like the rest of the population. Rational thought is very far from the scientific method.

In the first place, the fact that sometimes scientists behave irrationally does not contradict my statement that they are not embarrassed by acting rationally.

In the second place, you seem to be conflating the scientific method with what scientists do in their private lives.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 5:26 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16093
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 63 of 137 (541523)
01-04-2010 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 5:46 AM


Re: stolen with glee
Anyway, I'll restate:

If the REST of the universe is INFINITE,
then the SPECK of information that we know is INFINITELY SMALL.

So you failed math too?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 5:46 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 10:18 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16093
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 64 of 137 (541524)
01-04-2010 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 5:35 AM


Re: God is Lawful Good
Yes it does. Not that I care about our observed age of the earth, just that history, as told in the scriptures, is important in that it tells what has taken place.

Even assuming this amusing fantasy to be true, it does not mean that in principle you would have been unable to choose to be sinful if the world had been created five minutes ago.

After all, in your fantasy world Adam was perfectly capable of choosing sin without the world being six thousand years old when he did so.

At a certain time in the past, we chose sin, so God had to do something to make up for our choice. We chose Death. So God had to fix that problem. That's actually when time started. The clock didn't start ticking till we choose not to be in fellowship with God. Before that, time didn't exist... As we know it.

And now you're making up your own theology.

For a man who claims to know "less than nothing", you sometimes seem awfully self-assured.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 5:35 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 10:10 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 92 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 7:59 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 65 of 137 (541529)
01-04-2010 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Parasomnium
01-04-2010 6:17 AM


Re: God is Lawful Good
"And how do we know which scriptures to believe? There are many different stories, you know, and most of them contradict each other."

Rather than having done any such research, you're simply repeating what others (who have done no such research) have said. Given that God is infinite, we can expect more than one point of view regarding the same truth. And that's what we find. We can explore my twisted "multi-viewpoint" logic, if only you would reference your references for us.

In fact we even find other, older cultures telling different versions of the same Biblical History story. As you know.

Edited by -Sky-, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Parasomnium, posted 01-04-2010 6:17 AM Parasomnium has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Parasomnium, posted 01-04-2010 10:56 AM Sky-Writing has responded
 Message 71 by Coyote, posted 01-04-2010 11:13 AM Sky-Writing has responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 66 of 137 (541530)
01-04-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Dr Adequate
01-04-2010 8:29 AM


Re: God is Lawful Good
"And now you're making up your own theology. For a man who claims to know "less than nothing", you sometimes seem awfully self-assured. "

I do tend to internalize the truth based on other observations.
God forgive me for taking Him to heart.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-04-2010 8:29 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 67 of 137 (541532)
01-04-2010 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by Dr Adequate
01-04-2010 8:20 AM


Re: stolen with glee
"So you failed math too?"

Is that considered a suitable math challenge in your world?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-04-2010 8:20 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 68 of 137 (541533)
01-04-2010 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Dr Adequate
01-04-2010 8:19 AM


Re: True science nonsense again
"In the second place, you seem to be conflating the scientific method with what scientists do in their private lives. "

They are thoroughly entwined. And I can prove that science is driven by the desires of man rather than the interest in scientific discovery.

Where is Scientific research money spent?
And where should it be spent?

If you can answer those questions in a scientific way you get a Christmas cookie.

Edited by -Sky-, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-04-2010 8:19 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2010 10:34 AM Sky-Writing has responded

  
hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 69 of 137 (541536)
01-04-2010 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 10:26 AM


Re: True science nonsense again
And I can prove that science is driven by the desires of man rather than the interest in scientific discovery.

I'd like to see this proof.

Where is Scientific research money spent?

On scientific research.

And where should it be spent?

On scientific research.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 10:26 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 12:22 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
Parasomnium
Member (Idle past 805 days)
Posts: 2191
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 70 of 137 (541538)
01-04-2010 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 10:02 AM


Re: God is Lawful Good
Sky writes:

Rather than having done any such research, you're simply repeating what others (who have done no such research) have said.

You don't know what research I have or haven't done. In fact you know nothing about me. So stop making such baseless assertions.

Given that God is infinite [...]

This is not a given at all. That's just another baseless assertion, or if it's based on anything, it is the scripture you mentioned before. In that case I repeat my question: how do you know that your particular scripture is the truth?

We can explore my twisted "multi-viewpoint" logic, if only you would reference your references for us.

You can do your own research: just google "creation myth". The very first hit takes you to a wikipedia article where diverse creation myths are presented. One involves vomit, another three suns. Of course anybody can get their knickers in a twist to try and reconcile all those disparate stories in the light of an "infinite God", but I trust you are not going to make a fool of yourself.


"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 10:02 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 2:39 PM Parasomnium has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 214 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 71 of 137 (541542)
01-04-2010 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 10:02 AM


How people were made
The Creation of Men and Women

When the world was finished, there were as yet no people, but the Bald Eagle was chief of the animals. He saw that the world was incomplete and decided to make some human beings. So he took some clay and modeled the figure of a man and laid him on the ground. At first he was very small but he grew rapidly until he reached normal size. But as yet he had no life; he was still asleep. Then the Bald Eagle stood and admired his work. "It is impossible," he said, "that he should be left alone; he must have a mate." So he pulled out a feather and laid it beside the sleeping man. Then he left them and went off a short distance, for he knew that a woman was being formed from the feather. But the man was still asleep and did not know what was happening. When the Bald Eagle decided that the woman was about completed, he returned, awoke the man by flapping his wings over him and flew away.

The man opened his eyes and stared at the woman. "What does this mean?" he asked. "I thought I was alone!" Then the Bald Eagle returned and said with a smile, "I see you have a mate! Have you had intercourse with her?" "No," replied he man, for he and the woman knew nothing about each other. Then the Bald Eagle called to Coyote who happened to be going by and said to him, "Do you see that woman? Try her first!" Coyote was quite willing and complied, but immediately afterwards lay down and died. The Bald Eagle went away and left Coyote dead, but presently returned and revived him. "How did it work?" said the Bald Eagle. "Pretty well, but it nearly kills a man!" replied Coyote. "Will you try it again?" said the Bald Eagle. Coyote agreed, and tried again, and this time survived. Then the Bald Eagle turned to the man and said, "She is all right now; you and she are to live together.

California Indian creation story

Now, Sky, you might not accept this as accurate but if not, can you provide empirical evidence that it is not accurate and that any other creation story is more accurate?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 10:02 AM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 2:32 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3260 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 72 of 137 (541548)
01-04-2010 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by hooah212002
01-04-2010 10:34 AM


Re: True science nonsense again
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan - Stoned?

(Sagan proposes that they'd just have us visit with them....mentally....for 17 seconds or so. Most scientists predict Death from contact with other life.)

I like that. Good answer.
In "reality"......hard cold reality,

Man is the only form of life in the entire Cosmos.

And science has spent Billions trying to prove that fact wrong.
What would be the SCIENTIFIC value of finding another
form of life, not from this planet?

No known benefit at all.

Especially compared to the fact that we KNOW there are 100's perhaps millions of new species of life on Earth, not yet discovered. And we can look for them for "free."
Just take a walk or a swim.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2010 10:34 AM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Huntard, posted 01-04-2010 12:33 PM Sky-Writing has responded
 Message 74 by Coyote, posted 01-04-2010 12:41 PM Sky-Writing has responded
 Message 75 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2010 1:12 PM Sky-Writing has responded

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 403 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 73 of 137 (541550)
01-04-2010 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 12:22 PM


Contradict yourself much?
-Sky- first writes:

Man is the only form of life in the entire Cosmos.

-Sky- then writes:

Especially compared to the fact that we KNOW there are 100's perhaps millions of new species of life on Earth, not yet discovered.

Contradict yourself much?


I hunt for the truth

I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 12:22 PM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 214 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 74 of 137 (541553)
01-04-2010 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 12:22 PM


Re: True nonsense again
Man is the only form of life in the entire Cosmos.

And you know this, how?

And science has spent Billions trying to prove that fact wrong.
What would be the SCIENTIFIC value of finding another
form of life, not from this planet?

No known benefit at all.

Knowledge!

(Are you for real, or are you a Poe?)


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 12:22 PM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 75 of 137 (541555)
01-04-2010 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Sky-Writing
01-04-2010 12:22 PM


Re: True science nonsense again
You said you had proof that scientific research was driven by the desires of man, rather than the interest in scientific discovery. Where is the proof? You made a baseless assertion: back it up.

Man is the only form of life in the entire Cosmos.

You are full of these baseless assertions, aren't you?

Especially compared to the fact that we KNOW there are 100's perhaps millions of new species of life on Earth,....

I thought man was the only life form in the cosmos?

No known benefit at all.

Maybe it benefits YOU to bury your head in the sand and not try to make discoveries, but it does mankind no good.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 12:22 PM Sky-Writing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-04-2010 3:18 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
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