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Author Topic:   Why'd you do it that way, God?
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 72 of 137 (541548)
01-04-2010 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by hooah212002
01-04-2010 10:34 AM


Re: True science nonsense again
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan - Stoned?

(Sagan proposes that they'd just have us visit with them....mentally....for 17 seconds or so. Most scientists predict Death from contact with other life.)

I like that. Good answer.
In "reality"......hard cold reality,

Man is the only form of life in the entire Cosmos.

And science has spent Billions trying to prove that fact wrong.
What would be the SCIENTIFIC value of finding another
form of life, not from this planet?

No known benefit at all.

Especially compared to the fact that we KNOW there are 100's perhaps millions of new species of life on Earth, not yet discovered. And we can look for them for "free."
Just take a walk or a swim.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2010 10:34 AM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Huntard, posted 01-04-2010 12:33 PM Sky-Writing has responded
 Message 74 by Coyote, posted 01-04-2010 12:41 PM Sky-Writing has responded
 Message 75 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2010 1:12 PM Sky-Writing has responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 76 of 137 (541565)
01-04-2010 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Huntard
01-04-2010 12:33 PM


Re: Contradict yourself much?
"Contradict yourself much?"

Right on criticism. My Bad. Even I'm used to saying "Man is the only intelligent form of life." Which is ridiculous.

Our Earth is the only known source of life in the "Cosmos."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Huntard, posted 01-04-2010 12:33 PM Huntard has not yet responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 77 of 137 (541568)
01-04-2010 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Coyote
01-04-2010 11:13 AM


Re: How people were made
"Now, Sky, you might not accept this as accurate but if not, can you provide empirical evidence that it is not accurate and that any other creation story is more accurate?"

I admire that it and others are similar to the one I hold as most accurate. But that particular story is not enclosed in a book of historical, factual events, people, places, and time lines. See more @ http://www.bib-arch.org/


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 78 of 137 (541570)
01-04-2010 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Parasomnium
01-04-2010 10:56 AM


Re: God is Lawful Good
"You don't know what research I have or haven't done. In fact you know nothing about me. So stop making such baseless assertions."

That response actually tells the whole story.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Parasomnium, posted 01-04-2010 10:56 AM Parasomnium has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Rahvin, posted 01-04-2010 3:10 PM Sky-Writing has responded
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 80 of 137 (541574)
01-04-2010 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by hooah212002
01-04-2010 1:12 PM


Re: Truely, Science nonsense again
"You said you had proof that scientific research was driven by the desires of man, rather than the interest in scientific discovery. Where is the proof? You made a baseless assertion: back it up."

Well, this is private proof, but we'll see.
If I say that it's proven that Greenland average temperatures could rise by 5Centigrade in 10 years, would you proclaim it to the world, or sweep it under the rug? (Melting not caused by CO2.)

The scientific community has swept it under the rug as
"An Inconvenient Truth"

It's "PROOF" fro me that science could care less about the facts if they conflict with a predisposed idea.

10 days ago this fact had FOUR results in a google search. All from one website. I spread the word a little, and now science is peeking out from under the snowball with 80 results. You likely don't care about the global warming muck...but it's valid proof to me. "Especially astonishing are the very short times needed for major warmings. A temperature increase of 5C can occur in a few decades. "

Also note the scientific term "Especially astonishing." Sagan used that term around the Hookah pipe a lot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by hooah212002, posted 01-04-2010 1:12 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jasonlang, posted 01-04-2010 5:48 PM Sky-Writing has responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 81 of 137 (541575)
01-04-2010 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Coyote
01-04-2010 12:41 PM


Re: True nonsense again
Man is the only form of life in the entire Cosmos.
And you know this, how?

Science Dude, Scientific evidence.
All here,
none found there.

Science hard Fact.

Scoop shovels of soil, radio waves, visible monitoring, every possible known scientific method of observation we can come up with. Robots even.

Zero, Zilch, Nada. Even our fiction is hokey. Green men with huge heads. With all this raw material at our disposal, we can't come up with anything new. We can only stick working stuff together like Mr. Potato head clones.


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 82 of 137 (541579)
01-04-2010 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Rahvin
01-04-2010 3:10 PM


Re: God is Lawful Good
"Indeed - it shows that you, -Sky-, are making the baseless assumption that another debater has not engaged in research on teh topic. You are, in effect, attacking the person, not the argument."

You call that an attack? You must be a mighty thin skinned dung weasle.
But I appreciate your view. I'll keep that in mind.

How about "Consistent" against old hard facts instead?
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/biblical-archaeology.htm
http://www.bib-arch.org/
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/
http://biblicalarcheology.net/
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/
http://www.wyattmuseum.com/
http://www.baseinstitute.org/
http://www.digbible.org/
http://www.christianbook.com/...owell/9780785242192/pd/42199

Edited by -Sky-, : just cause

Edited by -Sky-, : No reason given.


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 86 of 137 (541605)
01-04-2010 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jasonlang
01-04-2010 5:48 PM


Re: Truely, Science nonsense again
"Especially astonishing are the very short times needed for major warmings. A temperature increase of 5C can occur in a few decades."

Just throw the quote around and see if you get called a raving lunatic as I did.....until I included the source.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jasonlang, posted 01-04-2010 5:48 PM jasonlang has responded

Replies to this message:
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 89 of 137 (541612)
01-04-2010 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jasonlang
01-04-2010 5:48 PM


Re: Truely, Science nonsense again
Yup...that's the best ; )

And nobody follows the monkey linage anymore.
I think it was only the cartoonists anyway.

Edited by -Sky-, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 91 of 137 (541629)
01-04-2010 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Meldinoor
10-03-2009 4:24 AM


"So, if you had to make these assumptions, what reasons do you see for the Creator to choose gradual naturalistic processes, as opposed to an undeniably divine creation event?"

If God is doing the choosing, then both are undeniably divine creation events. That was easy & fun.

Unless God just happened along, which wasn't part of your setup.

The Gradual process is the one where magma cools at a suitable rate, so as not to explode as if a molten planet was dunked in water. Also some process was needed for creating dirt. And ground stone for body and organics for water retention. Good soil takes some amount of time.

How much "time" it took for all this time to pass is up for debate.

How much "time" did it take for
The cure of two blind men
The deaf and dumb man
The blind man of Bethsaida
The raising of the widow's son at Nain
The man with the dropsy
The ten lepers
The healing of Malchus
Water made wine
Impotent man at Bethsaida cured
Man born blind curedLazarus raised from the dead
Syrophoenician woman's daughter cured

These things take time to heal. How much time?
Go Figure.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Meldinoor, posted 10-03-2009 4:24 AM Meldinoor has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by MikeDeich, posted 01-04-2010 10:59 PM Sky-Writing has responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 92 of 137 (541633)
01-04-2010 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Dr Adequate
01-04-2010 8:29 AM


Re: God is Lawful Good
[The clock didn't start ticking till we choose not to be in fellowship with God. Before that, time didn't exist... As we know it.]

"And now you're making up your own theology."

I read. The Bible says there was no death before the fall.
I think that qualifies.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-04-2010 8:29 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by Coyote, posted 01-04-2010 9:59 PM Sky-Writing has responded
 Message 98 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-05-2010 1:33 AM Sky-Writing has responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 95 of 137 (541652)
01-04-2010 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Coyote
01-04-2010 9:59 PM


Re: Before the fall?
"....what the scientific evidence shows."

See.....this is the ONLY point at which we differ.
The rest, we fully agree on. I even get my data
from "your" team. It makes more sense from my
view. The other side goes against the laws of
physics. Everything degrades down. Nothing
evolves up to more a more complex system.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 96 of 137 (541655)
01-04-2010 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by MikeDeich
01-04-2010 10:59 PM


Are you saying you agree god might work in naturalistic processes or not?

They are HIS processes either way ya look at it. The only question being, did this time take place over what we call billions of years, or did this massive amount of time all get squeezed into one miraculous event? If the miracles of the new testament happened instantly, then the same is likely true of Genesis.

If my pal Jesus causes lame man to suddenly get up and walk, who cares if a team of Doctors with a CAT scan decide the mans bones have been healed for months? They aren't WRONG about the science. I saw the man healed. My viewpoint is different from theirs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by MikeDeich, posted 01-04-2010 10:59 PM MikeDeich has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by MikeDeich, posted 01-05-2010 7:26 AM Sky-Writing has responded

  
Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 102 of 137 (541782)
01-06-2010 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by MikeDeich
01-05-2010 7:26 AM


But please explain, how would the miracles in the new testament prove that genesis was also LIKELY to be instantaneous? That is a big jump.

1. It is said that Jesus is the Creator, so He was responsible for both events. Nothing is written that suggests slow gradual naturalistic processes have any value. In fact Jesus "fought" against these processes at every opportunity. His actions opposed many "Natural" events. Storms, aging, disease, and in the end, he even cried out to the Father that he didn't want to participate in the Death "thing" ......if it could be avoided.

2. The study of the creation story translation can be summarized with "When the word "day" is used with a specific number, it always has reference to a normal day."

This means that the jump is not big. With apologies to Science-Fiction-ists, The Creation Days are more likely to be acts of Special Creation, and less likely to be Some-Million-Year days.


This message is a reply to:
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3436 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 103 of 137 (541786)
01-06-2010 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Peepul
01-05-2010 9:16 AM


Gradualistic-ing
We are insignificant in the vast size of the cosmos, and likewise we are insignificant in the vast history of the cosmos.

This is entirely opposite of God's message to us, so the source of that thinking is from......another place.

And supposing it were true. What advantage would the species gain from thinking it was insignificant? So it's actually in opposition to the Evolution God's message as well. The Evolution God may well chalk you up as a weak minded mud worm and send in somebody with an ounce of Machismo and lop off your head and move into your house.

It may be that Sagan himself was feeling insignificant in the vast history of the cosmos. His mother was a street smart shrew that stole other girls boyfriends "just to prove she could do it." And his Father was an usher in a movie theater.

But then Jesus was born in a cattle stall so I guess humble beginnings aren't the worst thing.

Edited by -Sky-, : changes


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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