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Author
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Topic: What was God’s plan behind Creation and why does he need one?
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
I personally find this a rather interseting take on the subject. Especially given the percentage of planet earth that is completely inhospitable to humans either due to weather or animals that will destroy us. If this planet was made just for us, why are there so many areas where we cannot survive?
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
Even so, there is still a significant portion (almost 3/4) of the earth where the earth itself will chew us up and spit us out. i am trying to find the actual statistics on the percentage of the earth that is hospitable. I know 70% at least is covered in water and the last I checked, humans aren't known for their aquatic capabilities. Then, you've got the other less-than-hospitable areas, such as the antarctic. Are we to assume that because this broad ate an apple, god made all these areas inhospitable, and they were not this way before "the fall"?
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 8 by Huntard, posted 01-08-2010 9:54 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 9 of 174 (542204)
01-08-2010 10:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 8 by Huntard
01-08-2010 9:54 AM
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
I guess this IS the Faith and Belief section, so anything is possible......
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by Huntard, posted 01-08-2010 9:54 AM | | Huntard has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 10 by Huntard, posted 01-08-2010 10:08 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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I'd like to take this bit one step further:
To consider how strange this is, imagine if we humans created a completely new species and demanded of this new species that it should follow certain rules. Yet, at the same time, we gave it free-will and an inquisitive mind of it’s own and consequently it refused to follow our rules or failed to understand them. Would it not be highly peculiar if our reaction were to blame the species that we were entirely responsible for creating, rather than blame our own motives and designs? If said being you created was created with the ability to reproduce, on it's own, would you then blame each individual successor generation for what the first had done wrong? It would be like being an eloctronics engineer: holding a hammer over each individual piece of machinery you build, just waiting for it to fuck up (because you KNOW it will). I went to the laundromat this past weekend to do some laundry. there were some pamphlets lying about from a few churches. 3 different churches, IIRC. Each and everyone started off with something along these lines: "You are a sinner. You are born a sinner. You NEED to be saved." So if this fella created us, it would seem his "plan" is for us to "sin"...since according to some members on this board, everyon sins, even Ned Flanders (NOT a true chrisitan). Meandering back more on topic: if I had to believe that god created us for "company" (to put it lightly): why is he lonely? Why not just create us as he intended? Why put all his children through so much suffering in our physical form? After reading some of the theists postings in this thread, I've almost asked whether or not god himself has freewill. It almost begs the question that creating us was what god was SUPPOSED to do. He did it because it was in his plan. As a Chicago Bears fan, I know this scenario all too well since Lovie NEVER deviates from the playbook.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Don't question god
The lack of response to this is remarkable considering how much certainty and dogma is normally associated with religious belief. You'd have thought that if "purpose" was fundamental to the belief in a creator, there would be a lot of very strong and readily available answers as to what that purpose was. I think for anyone to even entertain the notion of "why did god do this that or the other" starts off wrong (in the eyes of a believer) by even questioning god. We were created becaused god did it, and god is good. Don't ask questions. If he wants us to know "why" he did it, he will tell us. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 61 of 174 (542995)
01-14-2010 10:42 AM
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Could it be that god didn't exist until he created something to recognize his presence? I have a hard time believing god sitting around for eons doing nothing. Maybe playing some pool with angels or something, then getting a crazy idea "hey, I'll create something in my image maybe some more of what I already have up here. I'll call it "man"" then putting the restraints that ARE upon us? I can see it now: God: "dammit Eve, you just fucked humanity" Adam: "nice going ya dumb broad" And so goes the story of women being the downfall of man.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 62 by Iblis, posted 01-14-2010 8:49 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 64 by Huntard, posted 01-15-2010 8:41 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 110 of 174 (545019)
01-30-2010 9:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 107 by Calypso
01-29-2010 10:58 PM
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
I'm pretty sure the bible disagrees with you on just about every point you brought up.
Now the question you pose about being in an inhospitable environment is an interesting one, as I believe that in order to make progress toward a better human race, that human race must be tested under adverse conditions. Much like a car that is crash tested. Yes we are in a sense live, intelligent crash test dummies. Or to put it more accurately, we are the vehicle the crash test dummies are our internal organs, so to speak. To use another analogy of a device created by humans besides the motor vehicle, take computers for instance. In order to make a more robust computer, it must be subject to attack and tested under adverse conditions. you will only find weakness under adverse conditions. If the conditions or the environment is perfect, the weaknesses remain hidden and no progress is made. It is a long and arduous process, with floods, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes, murderers, rapists, fire, lions and tigers and bears oh my! (the list is so long I will not bore you with all that can harm you) But you are being tested, your weaknesses are being found, the DNA changing to improve your chances. Sounds alot like you are a Theistic Evolutionist. Fair enough. But this thread, I beleive, is about YHWH: the Abrahamic god of the bible. There is no room for evIloution in that book.
Think about it, have you ever seen anything so complex randomly spawn without a creator? Have you ever seen a microprocessor assemble itself by chance after throwing a bunch of parts together? Of course not! Someone had to assemble it. Now consider how much more complex life and human minds are to that of a microprocessor and you will see how unlikely it is that humans are just some random event without a creator. Now I'm not saying it's impossible! Just improbable. Thanks for reading. God bless you and may God bless the United States of America. You can't equate the assemblage of a machine with a purpose to human life. nature does a fine job creating human life using nothing but parts from mother's embryo's and fathers sperm: no gawd involved.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 107 by Calypso, posted 01-29-2010 10:58 PM | | Calypso has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 111 by Calypso, posted 01-31-2010 12:15 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 112 of 174 (545026)
01-31-2010 12:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 111 by Calypso
01-31-2010 12:15 AM
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
Maybe not in your fantasy land, but in reality they did.... or are you talking about the first living cells? Let me clarify my post you are responding to, or actually correct myself. I said "mothers embryo", but I meant mothers egg. Surprised you didn't catch it. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by Calypso, posted 01-31-2010 12:15 AM | | Calypso has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 113 by Calypso, posted 01-31-2010 9:57 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 115 of 174 (545055)
01-31-2010 1:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 113 by Calypso
01-31-2010 9:57 AM
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
Surely you don't think evolution produces such things as crock-o-ducks, do you? If we were to watch a movie-timeline of the evolution of mankind, you wouldn't be able to notice the transition because it was gradual, not abrupt. There wasn't "all of a sudden" !POOF! there's a human, that would be a slap in the face to evIlution. Each individual step looked more and more like modern humans.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by Calypso, posted 01-31-2010 9:57 AM | | Calypso has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by 3DSOC, posted 01-31-2010 2:41 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 125 of 174 (545083)
01-31-2010 8:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 117 by 3DSOC
01-31-2010 2:41 PM
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
I'm going to put s different spin on this and hope give you some sort of concept of the power the sun holds over life on planet earth. I watched a documentary called Home some time ago. It detailed the symbiotic nature of life and how we all affect one another. You should check it out. (I am at work and cannot link to it.) One of the most interesting aspects shown in this is how vegetation fights gravity to get to the suns energy, which it feeds off of. I can only imagine that animals (of all sorts) will go to any lengths to attain this source of energy as well, to include eyesight. this is all off topic, of course, and does nothing to further the discussion for why some god might have created us.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 117 by 3DSOC, posted 01-31-2010 2:41 PM | | 3DSOC has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 140 of 174 (545154)
02-01-2010 9:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 139 by 3DSOC
02-01-2010 7:43 PM
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
Message 136I am learning quite quickly that some members are really strict in terms of presenting only facts. To understand a topic, IMO, a person doesn't simply memorize the facts. I do not understand how senses such as sight are explained by evolution. I was presenting what I thought was a very reasonable scenario highlighting one problem I find in the theory. 100 was just a nice round number easily divisible by 2. It also seemed that 100 was very generous in terms of rapidly developing eyesight. The actual number would probably be much higher if we use 400k years as our time span. You see, we strive for facts, rather than guesses, because the science minded people come here to learn. We don't want things to get muddied up with random ass guesses which are being touted as facts. When you make such assumptions based on nothing, led by a lack of knowledge, you are doing more harm than good. Since we ARE in the faith and beleif section, you can espouse you beleifs to your hearts content. But when you start dabbling in science: facts and evidences become a neccessity. You don't get to start saying this crap without any knowledge or evidence. It's even in the rules:
4: Points should be supported with evidence and/or reasoned argumentation. Address rebuttals through the introduction of additional evidence or by enlarging upon the argument. Do not repeat previous points without further elaboration. Avoid bare assertions. found here Note that "I pulled a number out of my ass" is neither evidence, nor a reasoned argumentation.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 139 by 3DSOC, posted 02-01-2010 7:43 PM | | 3DSOC has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 146 by 3DSOC, posted 02-02-2010 12:10 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 151 of 174 (545179)
02-02-2010 2:10 AM
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Reply to: Message 147 by 3DSOC
02-02-2010 12:33 AM
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Re: God's purpose & why the rules
It seems to me that a species would devote a lot of energy over a multitude of generations to develop organs capable of detecting light - while competing species may be growing larger over the same period of time. This seems to place the first species at a disadvantage to the second and would therefore be at risk of extinction. You are larger and stronger than a virus, yet they will kill you. Virii also have worse light recepticles (if any, I'll look that up) than you. you are larger and stronger than a snake, yet it can kill you. Your argument is weaksauce.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 147 by 3DSOC, posted 02-02-2010 12:33 AM | | 3DSOC has not replied |
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