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Author Topic:   The power of accumulation in evolution is common sense!
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 16 of 53 (542172)
01-08-2010 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Sky-Writing
01-07-2010 8:05 PM


Let's just say I know the exact procedure to get exactly what I need to have, and in most cases, the instant I ask. Poof. And it's no secret. Job covers the procedure.

Ok. I'll tell it.
If you pray long enough, and hard enough, God will tell you when to stop and just LET it go. In that next instant, He will POOF what you need in front of you. You will have no doubt it was an answer.

To the observer, they see nothing, because they don't know that your thought process was at work. But when that moment of asking and recieving comes, it's as clear as a bell.

If you are that privileged, please ask God to abolish malaria.

Poof!

Or perhaps the only reason that all your prayers so far have been answered is that you're so selfish that you've only ever asked God to help you achieve your own short-term goals.


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 17 of 53 (542173)
01-08-2010 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Sky-Writing
01-07-2010 5:48 PM


Because your opinion is in opposition to what we see.

For example: If you take a garden hose and lay it on the ground with a trickle of water.....the flow will snake back and forth wider and wider and wider.

No matter how long, it will not create a great crack like the grand canyon.

With layers and layer and layers, laid over long times, the toplayers will be soft and the bottom, well hard as rock.

But the grand canyon? All layers of hard rock cut steep and deep.....as if all the layers were of the same hardness.

And with that last clause, you jump into magical nutty thinking. Why should it require that all the layers were of the same hardness? Oh, right, obviously it doesn't. Duh.

All it requires is that water should be able to erode rocks no matter how hard they are, which it can.

Duh.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16094
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 9.0


Message 18 of 53 (542174)
01-08-2010 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Sky-Writing
01-07-2010 11:48 PM


I've taken pictures on the south canyon jeep tour, but didn't see any threads to read. I compare the structures to white water trips I've been on and to Mt. St. Hellens. And what the Creation Kooks say is true. There is an almost exact replica of the Grand Canyon. The same structures, angles, the same little trickle in the bottom. Only created in weeks.

Like Vacate, I should like to see a scrap of a shred of a scintilla of evidence for this monstrous lie.

But it will not be forthcoming.

Incidentally, did you just describe the Colorado River as a "little trickle"?

Creationists are funny.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 19 of 53 (542185)
01-08-2010 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Sky-Writing
01-07-2010 11:34 PM


1) nice response. How long before we can expect no more than 1 letter responses from you?

2) You do realize you consistantly quote my signature?

Please, for the good of the forum, post SOMETHING of substance.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18377
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 20 of 53 (542192)
01-08-2010 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Sky-Writing
01-07-2010 11:48 PM


-Sky- writes:

I've taken pictures on the south canyon jeep tour, but didn't see any threads to read. I compare the structures to white water trips I've been on and to Mt. St. Hellens. And what the Creation Kooks say is true. There is an almost exact replica of the Grand Canyon. The same structures, angles, the same little trickle in the bottom. Only created in weeks.

The Grand Canyon and the "Little Grand Canyon of the Toutle River" at Mt. Saint Helens are both examples of the topic of this thread, the power of successive small changes to accumulate into large effects. The river canyon at Mt. Saint Helens formed gradually over several weeks when a natural dam of the Toutle River gave way and the flow of water eroded through soft ash layers left by the eruption. The river canyon at the Grand Canyon formed over millions of years by the flow of the Colorado River gradually eroding through solid rock layers.

You can create similar effects yourself using a simple river modeling technique. Prepare a large sand box with sand treated and packed down in the manner used for beach sculptures. Lift one end of the sandbox a few inches, then use a hose at the high end to introduce a flow of water. If the slope in the sandbox is small and the water flow is small then the resulting "river" will meander. If the slope of the sandbox is greater and the water flow larger then canyons will quickly be cut.

Rapidly flowing water filled with debris and gravel can cut quickly through underlying rock like a buzzsaw. A flood overlying a landscape cannot do this. If there had been a global flood a mere 4500 years ago then it would be the dominant geological feature of our planet, but there are no signs of it anywhere.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Added clarification in 1st paragraph.


This message is a reply to:
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3263 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 21 of 53 (542215)
01-08-2010 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Vacate
01-08-2010 12:26 AM


Miniature Grand Canyon recreated in days
Like Vacate, I should like to see a scrap of a shred of a scintilla of evidence for this monstrous lie. But it will not be forthcoming.

Here are some pics.
http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/...SH/Images/sediment_erosion.html

Just Google-Map "Mt St Helens, Gifford Pinchot, Skamania, Washington" You will see the exact same erosion patterns in fresh ash as in "slowly layered sediment". Zoom in till 1 inch = 1 mile.

Edited by -Sky-, : No reason given.

Edited by -Sky-, : No reason given.


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Huntard
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 22 of 53 (542217)
01-08-2010 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Sky-Writing
01-08-2010 10:40 AM


Re: Miniature Grand Canyon recreated in days
-Sky- writes:

You will see the exact same erosion patterns in fresh ash as in "slowly layered sediment"


It's not an "almost exact replica" of the grand canyon then, is it? The grand canyon isn't made of ash, for one. It's made of a somewhat harder substance known as rock.


I hunt for the truth

I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3263 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 23 of 53 (542218)
01-08-2010 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
01-08-2010 8:46 AM


If there had been a global flood a mere 4500 years ago then it would be the dominant geological feature of our planet, but there are no signs of it anywhere.

3/4 of the earth surface is sedimentary layers. (water born)
And fossils only exist when buried rapidly by sediment.


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3263 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 24 of 53 (542219)
01-08-2010 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Huntard
01-08-2010 10:48 AM


Re: Miniature Grand Canyon recreated in days
It's not an "almost exact replica" of the grand canyon then, is it? The grand canyon isn't made of ash, for one. It's made of a somewhat harder substance known as rock.

My point exactly. Yet the erosion patterns are identical. So one can't use the Grand Canyon as an example of millions of years of erosion, if the same feat can be accomplished in days.

Similarly, one can't claim crude oil as an example of millions of years of sediments, if the same result can be accomplished in weeks with a load of garbage slop.


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3263 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 25 of 53 (542220)
01-08-2010 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by hooah212002
01-08-2010 7:07 AM


1) nice response. How long before we can expect no more than 1 letter responses from you?
2) You do realize you consistantly quote my signature?
Please, for the good of the forum, post SOMETHING of substance.

"Remove the log from thine own eye first...."
"Physician, heal thyself"
"etc."


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3263 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 26 of 53 (542225)
01-08-2010 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Percy
01-08-2010 8:46 AM


The river canyon at the Grand Canyon formed over millions of years by the flow of the Colorado River gradually eroding through solid rock layers.

You're not up to speed. The most plausible public theory is that a plate uplift gave way and an inland sea to burst through and cut the canyon in months. But I enjoy defending "mainstream science" when they already agree with biblical concepts.


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hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 27 of 53 (542226)
01-08-2010 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Sky-Writing
01-08-2010 11:28 AM


The most plausible public theory is that a plate uplift gave way and an inland sea to burst through and cut the canyon in months.

Evidence? no.

Baseless assertion? yes.

{ABE} ironically enough, professional Geologists seem to be in agreement. your argument about the age of the grand canyon seems to be stemming form the creationist camp. check this link out: http://www.unc.edu/~jenhoppe/Portfolio/Geology.pdf

The numerous explanations of how the
Grand Canyon formed support or disprove evolutionary and creationist theories. As a result, the
many conflicting hypotheses pertaining to the origin of the Grand Canyon have spawned debates
between creationists and evolutionary geologists.

Generally, non-biased sources such as the National
Parks Service Website provide a seemingly reasonable explanation with scientific support.
However, other sources such as the Institute for Creation Research and Lee Dye’s article claim
that a new, more controversial theory is more accurate. Therefore, the reliability of the source is
of great importance when considering the theories stated or supported by the source. When
determining the validity of an argument provided by a certain source, examining the bias of the
source is crucial. The background information of the author and information about the website
where the author posted the article reveal the partiality of a source.

Once again, we can see that it is creationists causing a debate, not the facts and not science.

Edited by hooah212002, : added the ever wonderful substance so as not to stoop to that level


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-08-2010 11:28 AM Sky-Writing has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 217 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 28 of 53 (542231)
01-08-2010 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Sky-Writing
01-08-2010 11:09 AM


Re: Miniature Grand Canyon recreated in days
Yet the erosion patterns are identical. So one can't use the Grand Canyon as an example of millions of years of erosion, if the same feat can be accomplished in days.

I can't believe that you are claiming that because water can cut soft ash quickly and easily that it is impossible for water to require a much longer time to cut solid rock, but that seems to be what you are saying.

But if you want to use that logic, lets go back to the tilted box with sand and the garden hose. You should be able to get a small canyon in soft sand in just a few minutes. By your logic that "proves" that the St. Helens ash canyon couldn't have happened:

"So one can't use the Grand St. Helens ash Canyon as an example of millions of years days of erosion, if the same feat can be accomplished in days minutes."

Epic fail!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5381
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 29 of 53 (542235)
01-08-2010 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Sky-Writing
01-08-2010 11:28 AM


The most plausible public theory is that a plate uplift gave way and an inland sea to burst through and cut the canyon in months.

You are Making Shit Up, Sky. Post a link to this "plausible public theory" or shut up.


This message is a reply to:
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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3263 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 30 of 53 (542239)
01-08-2010 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Coragyps
01-08-2010 11:54 AM


Bunched up Panties
You are Making Shit Up, Sky. Post a link to this "plausible public theory" or shut up.

Don't get your panties all in a bunch if somebody disagrees
with your specific point of view.
Do your own research.
Draw your own conclusions from the data.
Everybody else is doing it.

"The modern Colorado River did not carve the Grand Canyon in the last few million years," Dr. Elston said. "The canyon was already there."

Edited by -Sky-, : No reason given.

Edited by -Sky-, : .


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