Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,820 Year: 4,077/9,624 Month: 948/974 Week: 275/286 Day: 36/46 Hour: 1/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The power of accumulation in evolution is common sense!
Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4943 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


(1)
Message 38 of 53 (542282)
01-08-2010 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
10-20-2009 5:30 PM


On another note
Taz
Your OP got me thinking about another aspect of gradual accumulation you mentioned.
The creationist would argue that something like the eye would have required all the necessary components to assemble at the same time in order for the eye to exist. Both cases show a gross ignorance of the power of accumulation.
This, of course, refers to the popular "irreducible complexity" argument of which we're all so fond. Anyway, this example has perhaps been used before, but your examples of John Doe got me thinking of our current society as an example of something that has gradually accumulated, yet exhibits some aspects of being irreducibly complex.
Por ejemplo, just 20 years ago, it was difficult to find anyone that had their own email address. Yet now, if you could some how shut down the entire internet without affecting other aspects of society, things would get chaotic pretty damn quickly. The internet has become something that is necessary for the stability of our economy (not that it's very stable right now) and our society in general. But, just because it is necessary now, doesn't mean it was always so.
The power of gradual accumulation is not just that massive changes can occur over a series of many small steps (grand canyon, walking across the country) but that as changes accumulate it can change the very nature of the system so that removing an accumulated trait does not simply revert it to what it was before.

We have many intuitions in our life and the point is that many of these intuitions are wrong. The question is, are we going to test those intuitions?
-Dan Ariely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 10-20-2009 5:30 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 01-08-2010 7:04 PM Stagamancer has replied

Stagamancer
Member (Idle past 4943 days)
Posts: 174
From: Oregon
Joined: 12-28-2008


Message 49 of 53 (542390)
01-09-2010 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Taz
01-08-2010 7:04 PM


Re: On another note
I'm getting the impression that you've misunderstood what irreducibly complex is.
No, I'm pretty sure I understand what it is. A common IC argument is that a complex thing, such as the eye, could not have formed step by step because it can't function as an eye with anything less that what it has already. Now, what you're saying is there are alternative things the pre-eye could have been doing as it was evolving which is why it would be selected. And I agree with you. My argument is that there are some parts of the eye that are now necessary for any function at all, but they weren't always there. Since they've been incorporated into the structure, they've become necessary, but it wasn't always the case. Our arguments are not mutually exclusive, just looking at two different aspects. My internet society metaphor was not a perfect one, but I think it illustrated the idea that gradual accumulation can produce something that becomes necessary even though it wasn't originally, giving the illusion of so-called irreducible complexity

We have many intuitions in our life and the point is that many of these intuitions are wrong. The question is, are we going to test those intuitions?
-Dan Ariely

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Taz, posted 01-08-2010 7:04 PM Taz has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024