Are there any old Earth/old life creationionists/anti-evolutionists at evcforum.net?

Yep, this is the classical Gap Theory, sometimes known as Lucifer's Flood. It has the advantage of being a real theory, rather than mere "creation science"; that is, it was proposed at least as early as the 2nd century, when it appears in the Targum Onkelos and the Zohar, and was devised simply as an explanation of why the word tohu usually translated as "without form" is actually a verb form, something like a participle basically, meaning "laid waste"; but from this humble beginning it gets dragged out in the 19th century to solve all sorts of problems between geology and paleontology and bibleolatry and theosophy.The current version, found in many unpopular comic books from the folks who bring us those delicious Chick tracts, basically says everything before 4004 was the universe run by the original archangel, inventor of abominations like dinosaurs and black holes, and the whole thing got smoked during the War in Heaven. Afterwards, God comes down and starts sorting things out again, it takes him about a week to get all the local stars relit and recreate everything not totally reprehensible. Then he takes a little break, and it all starts going to hell again while he is snoozing. "For why? It repenteth me that I have made them!"Sort of? He has his own dealie though. Basically he cuts Genesis 2-3:something and sticks it in between 1:1 and 1:2 rather than munging it together with day 6 and 7ish the way most literalists try to do. That way, the mud man isn't the Adam who marries Eve and starts the big jesusnology, just the one who eats the apple with the unnamed woman and falls. Or something like that, I don't quite get him more than half the time.

Did you understand my post at all? Or was this just a knee-jerk reaction to a perceived insult?Science begins at the bottom, in its own narrow field, in its own tiny problem. If it's lucky, the hypothesis solves the problem, and doesn't collapse under further scrutiny. That's the best it can hope for, and it works to disprove itself as fast as it can so as not to waste the time of good people. Occasionally, usually in the presence of genius, a successful hypothesis turns out to have great explanatory power. It is found to solve many problems, in many fields, and through this process it becomes a theory.I call attention to the Gap Theory because it qualifies as an example of this process. It begins as a simple linguistic question. It resolves this question, and catches on like wildfire. In folklore, it sheds light on the Sons of God. In bible study, it tells us what the author of Hebrews is talking about in 11:3. In theology it serves Origen in reinterpreting his texts to create the wonderfully evocative Fall of the Angels. In politics, it assists Jerome in crushing the Luciferian heresy. In literature it gives us Milton's Paradise Lost. And in early stratigraphy and paleontology it lays the foundation for our modern understanding of Deep Time.Metaphysics, on the other hand, begins from the top down. It also can have great explanatory power. But in order to accomplish this, it has to work with the actual facts. Many good people are using creationism this way. They accept the findings of science and use them as a springboard to show how much more wonderful the creator must be than the primitive ideas of late antiquity ever imagined. Not just thousands, not just millions, but billions. Not just one little world with one little sky wrapped around it, but infinite worlds in transfinite space in more dimensions than we can yet imagine properly.In contrast to this, "creation scientists" and cdesign proponentsists not only refuse to use the truth, they lie. They not only fail to offer God the due credit for the world that is, they actively work to shrink his majesty in people's minds to that of a mere nepotistic storm lord good for only a few thousand years. They not only pretend to be baffled by a simple thing like flagellae, but refuse to do any damned experiments with their alleged hypothesis to actually earn the paycheck of a scientist. They are demagogues, and the only reason we don't kill them is because we haven't caught them hoarding weapons just yet. But God is patient, their time will come. I dig it when you get your alliteration going. I'd love to see you in some kind of steel-cage match with Jesse Jackson. It would be like Vikings invading France! Buz: Please produce the people who can pick a proper politician! *waving hands*
Jesse: Here are the people! And this is the steeple! *waggling fingers*

Could you give a chronology please? Order of events, dates or estimates where you know them, details you find helpful.I'm hoping to understand what fits between 1:1 and 1:2, which parts happen infinitely long ago and which parts happen recently, and where specific items like the various Falls and/or Floods fit in, in what order.Thanks!Edited by Iblis, : bridging the Gap

I know you are trying to keep order, and you are wise to do so. But I'm not interested in attacking ICANT's natural history in this thread, I want to understand his use of the Gap. Perhaps these original animals are something like the Platonic ideals, originals that serve as blueprints for the imperfect animals we see now. I am interested in the presence of more than one Adam as well. And I would particularly like to know who that snake was in this version of the story, what its state was, what if anything happened to it before the event, and what "before" would mean in this context, if Eden occurred at the very very beginning. I will be particularly pleased if he sorts out the discrepancies in the cherubic Eden meme.I would like a similar chronology from Buzsaw, but I don't think I'm going to get it unless he reads my posts. Randman I never took much interest in, he just seemed to make things up as he went along. Ray had a nice hypothesis one time, I remember, that could have really gone somewhere if Randman had stepped up and helped out; but he didnt. Some sort of fly in the annointment, you know.