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Author Topic:   The Bible's Flat Earth
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6583
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 361 of 473 (518674)
08-07-2009 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 356 by Young Earthling
08-06-2009 5:00 PM


Re: The flat earth
It seems that you have read the bible, even if only the parts that your electronic search brought up for your result. I challenge you to read the actual bible, in a different light.

Why do believers almost always assume non-believers have never read the bible? Personally I have read it cover to cover at least 4 times. The last time just 2 years ago. I find that the non-believers know much more about the bible than believers. Do you know what happens when you examine something critically? You learn more.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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greyseal
Member (Idle past 2121 days)
Posts: 464
Joined: 08-11-2009


Message 362 of 473 (519072)
08-11-2009 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
02-17-2009 8:01 PM


Re: The Literal Interpretation is a Flat Earth
forgive me, this is an old message thread, but if nobody's picked up on this particular piece of duplicity, I thought I'd mention it, at least for the giggles.

quote:

Buzsaw said:

As has been cited, the Hebrew has a word for flat but not for sphere. Circle, meaning circle or sphere is the term used relative to the earth.


so...which is it? no word for sphere, or a word for sphere?


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Blzebub 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3500 days)
Posts: 129
Joined: 10-10-2009


Message 363 of 473 (530434)
10-13-2009 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Chiroptera
02-17-2009 12:58 PM


Re: Timing
"I should point out that, if I recall correctly, the Old Testament as we know it took form during and after the Babylonian exile, which is about the same time as the earliest indications that the Greeks knew the earth was spherical. So it is entirely possible that the true authors, editors, and redactors of the Old Testament knew that the earth was a sphere.

However, it's pretty clear to me that the language used in the Old Testament refer to a flat earth, not a sphere. I don't know enough to state whether this is mere poetical device, or whether the authors really believed that the earth was flat."

The level of self-deception required to believe in god, coupled with the obstinate denial of the plain truth, is quite astonishing.

It's perfectly obvious that the Old Testament contains the creation myths of a relatively primitive civilisation, who were seeking the answer to "where did we come from?". Unfortunately, the answers they were given turned out to be incorrect.

Edited by Blzebub, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminPD, : Fixed quote box


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3411 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 364 of 473 (542656)
01-11-2010 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Granny Magda
02-14-2009 1:28 PM


There are many errors in the Bible and this is just one of them.

The error is only in the readers mind.
There are four gospels, each telling a different point of view from a different perspective. All are painting an increasingly accurate picture with each retelling of the same events.

Is space flat or curved?
We think that space is curved.
The Bible implies that space is curved as well.
You missed that tidbit.


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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 365 of 473 (542657)
01-11-2010 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Sky-Writing
01-11-2010 4:17 PM


The error is only in the readers mind.
There are four gospels, each telling a different point of view from a different perspective. All are painting an increasingly accurate picture with each retelling of the same events.

Who is the first person Jesus spoke to after leaving his tomb and how many people were there?

Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3411 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 366 of 473 (542658)
01-11-2010 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Blzebub
10-13-2009 1:22 PM


Re: Timing
The level of self-deception required to believe in god....

Is held by most people.
Odd how universal the belief is around the globe.

Besides, believing works wonders in a persons life.
Scientifically speaking, it gets results.


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3411 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 367 of 473 (542660)
01-11-2010 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Granny Magda
02-14-2009 1:28 PM


These passages mean exactly what they say; the Earth is fixed and immobile.

Fixed to what? Flat space or curved space?
Fixed in God's hand? - I'd go for that
Fixed in time? Not jumping forward in time or back? - I'll accept that.
Fiixed in God's Mind? In God Plans? In God's Kingdom? Immobile - not subject to impact with another planet to knock it out of place then substituting itself into Earth's orbit? (When World's Collide) - Good to know

I prefer the fixed explaination.
"The world spins like a top at 2000 MPH"
"The solar system hurls through space at "
Hey guess what? I don't even KNOW how fast we are moving.
What do I USE TO MEASURE OUR SPEED???

I'm writing a new bible that is dead accurate......pray tell...EXACTLY what should I give for the speed of the solar system so that every person will know THE TRUTH?


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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 368 of 473 (542662)
01-11-2010 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Sky-Writing
01-11-2010 4:37 PM


These passages mean exactly what they say; the Earth is fixed and immobile.

Fixed to what? Flat space or curved space?

The Earth is *NOT* fixed and immoble. The Bible is wrong about that.

prefer the fixed explaination.
"The world spins like a top at 2000 MPH"
"The solar system hurls through space at "
Hey guess what? I don't even KNOW how fast we are moving.
What do I USE TO MEASURE OUR SPEED???

quote:
The sun and its planets are known to streak through the void of space at approximately 62,000 miles (100,000 kilometers) an hour.

source


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Replies to this message:
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 369 of 473 (542672)
01-11-2010 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by Sky-Writing
01-11-2010 4:37 PM


Flat Earth Thread Keeps on Drawing Them In!
Hi Sky,

Fixed to what?

I'm not suggesting "fixed" in the sense of "attached to". I'm suggesting fixed in the sense of "immobile".

Flat space or curved space?

The authors would not have had any modern concept of space, so this is an irrelevant consideration.

Fixed in God's hand? - I'd go for that

Why? Is it because of that song?

{Apropos of nothing; "Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?" - Steven Wright}

Fixed in time? Not jumping forward in time or back? - I'll accept that.

Why would you accept that? It's plainly not true. The Earth is moving forwards through time at (roughly) the same rate as everything else in the vicinity. I thought you believed the Bible was accurate (?).

Besides, the authors would not have had any modern notion of time, so this is again, irrelevant.

Fiixed in God's Mind? In God Plans? In God's Kingdom?

The quotes give no such sense. They refer to the earth as fixed and immovable. The straightforward interpretation is that they are talking about physical immovability; a motionless earth.

Immobile - not subject to impact with another planet to knock it out of place then substituting itself into Earth's orbit? (When World's Collide) - Good to know

You are clearly not taking this seriously. Everything else in your post is gibberish as far as I can tell. Not that the first bit made much sense...

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3411 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 370 of 473 (542673)
01-11-2010 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 368 by New Cat's Eye
01-11-2010 4:58 PM


The Earth is *NOT* fixed and immobile.

The earth is NOT fixed to what?
Not fixed to the sun?
Not Fixed to The solar system?
Not in a fixed orbit?
Is the earth in a DECAYING ORBIT!!!
Do you KNOW something we don't know about?
And your NOT letting us in on it?
You Creep.

Or PERHAPS there is no good word in Greek or Hebrew
for "Stable Orbit".

Anybody out there know a good Greek word for "Stable Orbit"??

What about " The earth is in a Stable orbit around the sun which is shooting through the heavens at 62,000 MPH."

See, the problem is that anything will look wrong to you.
So..If you can't see how the rest is correct, then you can't see this either.

Edited by Sky-Writing, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 371 of 473 (542674)
01-11-2010 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Sky-Writing
01-11-2010 7:13 PM


Sky, you are approaching this backwards.

The earth is NOT fixed to what?
Not fixed to the sun?
etc.

What matters is what the text is saying, what the authors intended it to say.

Or PERHAPS there is no good word in Greek or Hebrew
for "Stable Orbit".

Anybody out there know a good Greek word for "Stable Orbit"??

Are you seriously suggesting that, in the absence of a specific single word meaning "orbit" that the Bible authors would have been unable of describing an orbit? Do you imagine them to have been idiots?

What about " The earth is in a Stable orbit around the sun which is shooting through the heavens at 62,000 MPH."

And if the Bible said that, I would be impressed. It doesn't though. It says the earth is fixed and immobile. Hence the problem...

See, the problem is that anything will look wrong to you.

I might just as usefully suggest that the problem is that you smell.

Or, we could not hurl mindless insults at one another. What do you think?

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 372 of 473 (542677)
01-11-2010 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Sky-Writing
01-11-2010 7:13 PM


The Earth is *NOT* fixed and immobile.
The earth is NOT fixed to what?
Not fixed to the sun?
Not Fixed to The solar system?
Not in a fixed orbit?

Right, it is not "fixed" to anything. To say that the Earth is fixed is wrong.

I don't know what you mean by a "fixed orbit", but I could probably imagine a way that the Earth could be described as fixed to something (that itself would have to be moving), and I suppose I could reconcile that to prevent the Bible from actually being 'wrong', but then I wouldn't be reading the Bible literally anymore, and I could just make up whatever I want it to be saying. I think it would be pathetic of me to go through all those mental gymnastics just to maintain that the Bible is inerrant, which would also probably mean that my faith was a house of cards whereas a single error in the book means that I'd stop believing in God. And sense I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do that, I wouldn't actually listen to or consider anybody's argument as to why that would be a horrible interpretation and also a basterdizing of the religion.

So, I'm not actually going to argue against 'fixed' meaning 'stable orbit'.

And that doesn't even touch on the "immoble" part. I can't even imagine the crazy antics I'd have to come up with to make that one fit. Care to humor us all with your attempt?

What about " The earth is in a Stable orbit around the sun which is shooting through the heavens at 62,000 MPH."

If you think that the writers thought that the Earth was a big ball flying through space around the sun, then you have a lot to learn about their culture. If you started a new thread on it then I, and I'd bet many others here, would help in correcting your misconceptions. Or would you rather I did? Would you participate?

Plus, that's hardly 'immovable', eh?

See, the problem is that anything will look wrong to you.
So..If you can't see how the rest is correct, then you can't see this either.

You're incapable of knowing that, and actually your wrong.

I do "see how the rest is correct". I'm just not going to lie to myself to maintain its inerrancy, especially when its so obvious like the example we're discussing.

At this point your position is that when they wrote "fixed and immovable" they were accurate and probably referring to the Earth's orbit, right? Don't you see that the writers didn't view their world like that?

Or are we going to go down the route of God inspiring them in a way that they wrote something that was completely different than what they understood themselves to be writing?


You Creep.

Let the record show that my attemps at civility have been met with insult. What I mean to say is... he started it.


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Sky-Writing
Member (Idle past 3411 days)
Posts: 162
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Joined: 03-12-2009


Message 373 of 473 (542695)
01-12-2010 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Granny Magda
01-11-2010 7:30 PM


Are you seriously suggesting that, in the absence of a specific single word meaning "orbit" that the Bible authors would have been unable of describing an orbit? Do you imagine them to have been idiots?

No, I don't think Jesus was an idiot. And he's the author of scripture. And he used descriptive phrases to transfer meaning & ideas from God to man. The bible is not Literally true. It's Literal Truth from God to Mankind. So if God tells us the Earth is fixed, then in some way it is. It may not have a nail through the center into a board, and it may not have glue smeared on the bottom, but in some way that God wanted us to realize, it's fixed.

It may be fixed in HIS mind, or maybe the the beginning, middle, and end are all planned out, or the phrase may actually be a lever to get people to study more.

Whatever the truth behind the phrase is, the only way to discover what it means, is polar opposite to your approach.

You'll suffer the loss of knowledge that'll be far worse than any ridicule I'll get for not having a good answer ready for you.

Compiling "mistakes" in the Bible? Good luck with that.
People have devoted years to such folly already.
It never gains them anything.

No, I have to retract that. Josh McDowell did that.
So I say in earnest....Good Luck with That! God Speed.

Edited by Sky-Writing, : Retraction


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Iblis
Member (Idle past 2155 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 374 of 473 (542702)
01-12-2010 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Sky-Writing
01-12-2010 1:59 AM


"fixed"
So if God tells us the Earth is fixed, then in some way it is. It may not have a nail through the center into a board, and it may not have glue smeared on the bottom, but in some way that God wanted us to realize, it's fixed.

Yep, it's "fixed" in the sense that it's a crooked game, not suitable for betting, similar to professional wrestling or major league baseball.

Example 1:

Exodus 7:3-5 writes:

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, [and] my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
And the Egyptians shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.

Example 2:

John 13:26,27 writes:

Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped [it]. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave [it] to Judas Iscariot, [the son] of Simon.
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Whose body and blood was that, then? You don't know, because Rule #3 prohibits telling you. But God breaks all his own rules at least once.

Example 3a:

Second Samuel 24:1 writes:

And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

Example 3b:

First Chronicles 21:1 writes:

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.


This message is a reply to:
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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2380
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


(1)
Message 375 of 473 (542707)
01-12-2010 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Sky-Writing
01-12-2010 1:59 AM


Hi Sky. It seems that you have some very extreme and unrealistic ideas about the Bible that are going to make any kind of discussion very difficult here.

No, I don't think Jesus was an idiot. And he's the author of scripture.

I don't know of anyone (save for yourself) who seriously believes that Jesus wrote the Bible. Apart from anything else, several of the quotes under discussion are from the Old Testament and pre-date Jesus' birth.

The bible is not Literally true. It's Literal Truth from God to Mankind.

This is an absurd and essentially meaningless non-statement.

It may be fixed in HIS mind, or maybe the the beginning, middle, and end are all planned out, or the phrase may actually be a lever to get people to study more.

Or it might mean that the earth is fixed, immobile and shall not be moved... just like it says.

It seems that the only reason you have for rejecting this interpretation is that it is not actually a true statement about the real Earth and you have taken the literal truth of the Bible as your starting assumption. That may be very comforting for you but it is of no use in a discussion of this nature.

Whatever the truth behind the phrase is, the only way to discover what it means, is polar opposite to your approach.

If the only way to understand this text is to accept it as truth without even comprehending what it says, as you seem to be suggesting, then I am content to remain ignorant thank you.

Compiling "mistakes" in the Bible? Good luck with that.

I am making no such effort. As far as I am concerned, there are more than enough obvious mistakes in the Bible for any reasonable observer to realise that it is far from the book of literal truth that you imagine it to be.

Mutate and Survive


"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by Sky-Writing, posted 01-18-2010 12:18 AM Granny Magda has responded

    
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