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Author | Topic: Report discussion problems here: No.2 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Funny you should mention this, because a recent thought has been to start up a whole new board to host political discussions. If there's any interest then I'd need the following:
Any takers?
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
After skimming through BD's posts I wasn't able to discern anything particularly amiss, but I'll keep an eye on the thread.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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Hi Bolder-dash,
I'm not a participant in the Has natural selection really been tested and verified? discussion, and as moderator I take no sides. As I said in my post, I was enumerating what I thought were the important subtopics in the discussion, and I both quoted you and described what had been suggested by others. What prompted my reply to you was that your Message 91 was primarily a list of complaints about other participants. Please leave the moderating responsibilities to the moderators. If you're experiencing problems with other participants then please post here. I think the thread participants need to do a bit more work reaching a consensus about the topic, and that is where I believe attention should be focused first. Otherwise the thread seems to be doing fine.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Bolder-dash,
Moderators can intervene when discussion roams too far off-topic, but in this case I think the participants should first attempt to seek consensus about the topic among themselves. If after a few days this doesn't seem to be working I can step in.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Please let the moderators deal with moderation issues.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
In response to your Message 149:
Bolder-dash writes: One solution might be to actually admonish the people making the ad hominem attacks, rather the innocent victims of those attacks who simply respond to them. Otherwise it tends to cloud any perception of impartiality in the moderation. Just saying. Cautioning someone for violating the Forum Guidelines does not always bring about the desired improvement, so moderators deal with each issue on a case by case basis. You might recall your own reaction the one time I admonished you. This is why I chose to close thread The difference between a human and a rock yesterday instead of admonishing you directly after your appalling Message 51. Edited by Admin, : Grammar.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Bolder-dash writes: I NEVER make ad hominem attacks towards posters... I'm know you believe this, but you might consider the possibility that your messages are more aggressive and antagonistic than you think. Because I think you would strongly reject that possibility I have avoided raising it. When other posters are being idiots, don't make it impossible for moderators to sort things out by joining them.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
As a participant in the thread I wasn't going to moderate SO at all for anything he was doing in his discussion with me, and I wasn't paying much attention to his subthreads with others. SO's posts run on and on and on, so if you can call my attention to a couple examples of the more serious problems I'll see if I can muster some moderator help, and if not then I'll step in myself since I've withdrawn as a participant.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
No fonts have changed recently, but an impending update introducing the private messaging feature will use smaller font sizes than people are accustomed to seeing here.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Dr Adequate,
Let's say you're right, that mockery is the only alternative. Jefferson said it best: "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them." However, we're not going to do that here. If you feel that leaves you helpless then I guess you're done. But as moderator I'm prepared to help hold SO's feet to the fire of evidence, explanation and argumentation provided by participants, and if you care to help build that fire it would be welcome.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
PaulK writes: Is the message Message 652 intended to redefine the topic to just genetic entropy ? No, it's just a suggestion, but SO's tendency to respond to sentences instead of to arguments is making everyone's posts way too long, and I think the actual arguments are getting lost. Anyone who thinks they have focus doesn't need any help. Anyone who feels they're getting pulled in too many different directions might want to try my suggestion.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Dr Adequate,
I encourage others to help shed any light they can to help you resolve your puzzlement, whether they share my views or not, but I assume you read Message 642Everyone Read This[/color] (Message 642 of Thread What exactly is ID? in Forum Intelligent Design), the message where I said I was tired of talking myself blue in the face and, that "I'm not posting any more requests or explanations," that I was "expressing myself solely with 24-hour suspensions in this thread for now." I decided to instead just remove your posting privileges in the forum. If you have specific questions then I will try to answer them, but given that the answers I've provided thus far have not made any sense to you I doubt it would help much. Perhaps to you my vision for EvC Forum seems just a quixotic exercise in frustration where people try to convince the unconvinceable, but there are many discussion boards on the Internet where participants can hoot mocks and insults at each other, and it doesn't need one more. We won't be doing that here. Maybe this will help: If you wouldn't say it in an article you planned to submit to a technical journal, then don't say it here.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Dr Adequate writes: If you will make all posts on this forum subject to fact-checking and peer-review, then I for my part will treat it as a technical journal. If, on the other hand, you are willing to let people post lies unchecked, then I may occasionally point out their errors. As I said in Message 635, when you provide derision instead of information then uninformed observers cannot distinguish any difference in merit between your arguments. They'll see he's calling you names, you're calling him names, so science and nonsense look about evenly matched. The participants in the discussion are the fact checkers, not the moderators. Once facts have been presented and arguments made (hopefully by people who don't get sucked in to SO's tendency to reply to every sentence and who end up following suit) then moderators can step in if some participants seem to be ignoring this. I have done so many times, though not recently, much as I would like to. It seems like no one on the evolutionist side is willing to pick some particular aspect and pursue it to a conclusion. It feels to me like EvC Forum is about 3 or 4 years past its prime. We used to be inhabited by people on both sides who would offer detailed evidence and arguments, like Skylar, Mammuthus, Peter Borger, Tranquility Base and TrueCreation, but now no one on the creationist side seems to actually know anything about anything, and those on the evolutionist side too often seem uninterested in sharing what they know.
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Wounded King,
I was wrong to say that no one on the evolutionist side is sticking with a focused argument, because obviously you'e been doing that, but here's my quandary. SO has made changes - he's no longer posting a series of one liners. But he's still slicing people's posts into tiny fragments and replying to each one. Then those people are doing the same thing. As a moderator I can't martial the time to make sense of this chaos, and I can't caution SO further about his approach because except for you and PaulK (and maybe I've forgotten someone else, if so, sorry), everyone else is doing it, too. The weekend's coming up. If I find a slot of time I'll try to get a firmer grasp on properly moderating the thread.
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