Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,397 Year: 3,654/9,624 Month: 525/974 Week: 138/276 Day: 12/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Genetic variability in a bacteria species
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 3 of 36 (543937)
01-22-2010 5:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
01-21-2010 6:47 PM


The question is, will these two be genetically identical? My uneducated guess would be "maybe, maybe not".
Your uneducated guess would be correct.
Errors are introduced roughly 1 per 1000 divisions (that is, if a cell has a thousand daughter cells, 1 of those 1000 will have an error, not 1 error will occur in a thousand generations which obviously can include an incredible number of bacteria cells).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-21-2010 6:47 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 5 of 36 (543940)
01-22-2010 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Iblis
01-22-2010 5:11 AM


Re: Lateral Transfer
BUT if they eat other bacteria not closely related to them, there's a very good chance that they won't be that similar to their parent or each other by the time they each split.
Hmm... it can happen, but I wouldn't describe it as "a very good chance". It's not even the primary means of lateral gene transfer. And lateral gene transfer in bacteria is rare (at the individual level, at the population level there are so very, very many bacteria involved that it happens a lot).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Iblis, posted 01-22-2010 5:11 AM Iblis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Iblis, posted 01-22-2010 5:28 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 14 of 36 (580206)
09-08-2010 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by frako
09-08-2010 5:20 AM


Re: Bacteria
All "industrial antibiotics" are natural antibiotics too. Almost all of them are compounds originally derived from soil fungi. Penicillin for example was originally produced by Penicillium chrysogenum

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by frako, posted 09-08-2010 5:20 AM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by frako, posted 09-08-2010 7:44 AM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 26 of 36 (580570)
09-10-2010 5:45 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by ICANT
09-09-2010 1:56 PM


Haploid vs. Diploid
If mutations are truly random as proposed isn't it possible that there are hundreds of mutations that could arise rather than a mutation of immunity to penecilin?
These other mutations do, indeed, occur. But the population sizes of bacteria used in these experiments are huge, millions upon millions of bacteria are involved. The reason that the penicillin mutation is the one we detect is that its the one we're looking for.
But my further question is why isn't it possible for the DNA to contain the immunity?
There are people who have immunities that are not active in their offspring but is active in later descendants. Why could that not be possible in bacteria?
Bacteria, unlike people, only have a single copy of their DNA. They are haploid rather than diploid, in the biological parlance.
In a diploid organism there are two copies of each gene. Often one version of the gene will be dominant, which means it will exert its effect even if there is only one copy of it, and one version of the gene will be recessive which means that it will only exert its effect if both copies are this variant. So, what happens when you have a hidden immunity in humans (or other animals) is that both parents carry the recessive gene, but also have a dominant gene so the recessive gene has no effect, and then both pass this recessive copy to their offspring. The offspring, now having two recessive copies, has the immunity.
(An example of this is the CCR5 Δ32 gene which gives near total immunity to HIV-1 infection)
Now, because bacteria aren't diploid, but haploid they have only one copy of each gene and thus express all of the genes they carry* and cannot have hidden immunity in the same way.
* - strictly, it's more complicated than that because gene expression is under environmental control but that's not relevant in this case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ICANT, posted 09-09-2010 1:56 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024