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Author Topic:   0.99999~ = 1 ?
Dr Jack
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Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 8 of 237 (543094)
01-15-2010 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Briterican
01-15-2010 8:49 AM


Re: Hmm, equal?
No, mathematically they're precisely equivalent - they are, in fact, different ways of writing the same thing. What's more every terminating decimal has two ways of being written, i.e.
0.5214 = 0.521399999~
7.2 = 7.199999~
And so on.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 27 of 237 (543212)
01-16-2010 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Straggler
01-15-2010 7:26 PM


Re: 1 and NOT 1
Surely the difference between 0.999R and 1 is practically non-existant and philosophically massive?
Nope, they're completely the same, philosophically and otherwise.
It is the difference between claiming complete certainty (for example) and always allowing for the possibility of that which is unexpected (no matter how likely or unlikely). It is the difference between an obtainable destination and that which can never exist or be obtained in reality.
Nope. There is no uncertainty, 0.9999~ is 1. In fact all decimal representations are infinite sequences, it's just some of them finish in an infinite number of 0s. This is not, as it may sound, a cute aphorism but actually fundamental to the construction of the real numbers. Real numbers are limits of inifnite sequences.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 31 of 237 (543220)
01-16-2010 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by cavediver
01-16-2010 9:42 AM


Re: 1 and NOT 1
Yeah, but finitism is silly.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 67 of 237 (543470)
01-18-2010 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Straggler
01-18-2010 9:32 AM


Re: 0 and Infinitesimally Small - Something and Nothing
The difference isn't infinitesimally small, it's 0.
0.9999999~ is the limit of 0 + 9/10 + 9/100 + 9/1000 + 9/10000 + ....
The limit. And the limit of that series is 1, not something infinitesimally different from one.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 72 of 237 (543479)
01-18-2010 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Straggler
01-18-2010 1:31 PM


Re: 0 and Infinitesimally Small - Something and Nothing
Isn't that what I said? That at the limit the difference between 1 and 0.999R is 0.
Yes, but the point is that 0.99999~ is a limit. There is no 0.9999~ that isn't a limit. All real numbers are limits, that's how they're constructed.
I am trying to explain why it still feels intuitively wrong.
Oh, sure, it feels intuitively wrong, no doubt. But as in higher level physics, intuition is a shoddy guide to higher maths.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 75 of 237 (543582)
01-19-2010 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Straggler
01-19-2010 5:20 AM


Re: 0 and Infinitesimally Small - Something and Nothing
Which is exactly why I am not disagreeing with you?
Aye, it was a comment, not an argument

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 77 of 237 (543602)
01-19-2010 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by InGodITrust
01-19-2010 2:35 PM


Re: Asymtotes
0.999999~ is the asymptote, not the value approaching it.
To clarify the nomenclature: a curve is said to be asymptotic to a line if it approaches it without ever reaching it (i.e. 1/x is assymptotic to 0), that line itself is the assymptote.
0.9 0.99 0.999 0.9999 0.99999 etc. is a sequence, that sequence approaches but never reaches 1, in a way that resembles an assymptotic curve. 0.999~ is not a member of that sequence, it is its limit. That is, it's the value that 0.9 0.99 0.999 0.9999 0.99999 etc. approaches but never reaches.
Edited by Mr Jack, : Additional

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.4


Message 82 of 237 (544072)
01-23-2010 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Rrhain
01-23-2010 4:45 AM


It's not necessary to write them as 0.9999~ for that proof to work, concluding with an infinite series of 0s also works.

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