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Author Topic:   Are there any old Earth/old life creationionists/anti-evolutionists at evcforum.net?
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3911
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 16 of 26 (542537)
01-10-2010 3:19 PM


THE TOPIC IS "OLD EARTH/OLD LIFE CREATIONISM"
Many of the recent messages are shooting way off-topic.

Adminnemooseus


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Report a problem etc. type topics:
Report discussion problems here: No.2
Thread Reopen Requests 2
Topic Proposal Issues

Other useful links:

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Admin writes:

It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.

There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.

Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Message 150


  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 17 of 26 (542549)
01-10-2010 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
10-15-2009 10:18 PM


Old Universe
Hi Moose,

Adminnemooseus writes:

So, my question is, does evcforum.net have any (as above defined) old universe/old Earth/old life creationists (NOT theistic evolutionists), who do not accept the mainstream scientific fact and theory of evolution? I personally do not know of any such member.

I believe in the oldest universe of anyone who has expressed an opinion that I have seen here. There has been mention of those who believe in a universe that has expanded then collapsed only to emerge again as a new universe.

The Bible states the universe was created in the beginnings. Since we are talking about eternity that would have reached infinitely into the past. That does not mean it existed then as we see it now.

In the history of the day of the creation of the universe mankind was created before plants, animals fowl or any living creature.

I do not know a number large enough to say when the beginning was.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-15-2009 10:18 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Iblis, posted 01-10-2010 6:17 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 19 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-10-2010 6:31 PM ICANT has responded

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 2239 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 18 of 26 (542553)
01-10-2010 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by ICANT
01-10-2010 5:10 PM


Re: Old Universe
In the history of the day of the creation of the universe mankind was created before plants, animals fowl or any living creature.

Could you give a chronology please? Order of events, dates or estimates where you know them, details you find helpful.

I'm hoping to understand what fits between 1:1 and 1:2, which parts happen infinitely long ago and which parts happen recently, and where specific items like the various Falls and/or Floods fit in, in what order.

Thanks!

Edited by Iblis, : bridging the Gap


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2010 5:10 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2010 9:52 PM Iblis has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3781
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 19 of 26 (542555)
01-10-2010 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by ICANT
01-10-2010 5:10 PM


The Randman and ICANT positions
I've been involved in at least 2 past topics relating to members whose creo/evo positions I deemed to be muddled.

Yec/Not Yec? - A "let's keep it short topic"

ICANT'S position in the creation debate

I'm now unsure if I ever got a clear position statement out of either Randman or ICANT. Perhaps the best ICANT statement came here. A bit of that message:

ICANT writes:

4. My opinion on the first human life on this earth

The first life on the present earth began during the light period that is found in Genesis 1:1 which the account/history of is given in Genesis 2:4-4:24.

This life began billions of years ago.

This life ceased to exist prior to the evening found in Genesis 1:2.

The present life on the earth began to exist some 6000 years ago when God did a restoration of the earth.

This seems to make ICANT a hybrid old life /and/ young life creationist.

ICANT writes:

5. My opinion on the modern great apes (gorillas, chimps) and modern humans having a common ancestor?

The only thing any living creatures have in common is their Creator and many of the things He created them from.

I interpret this to mean that each "kind" (and I don't want a "what is a kind?" sub-discussion - See Species/Kinds (for Peg...and others) for that) was a special creation event, with no ancestry chain from the earlier "kinds". Thus, God has been doing ongoing life special creations from billions of years ago to the more or less present.

I now pray to God, Jah, and/or TFSM that this is on topic.

In the history of the day of the creation of the universe mankind was created before plants, animals fowl or any living creature.

???

This does not seem to line up with most anyone's theology or science history. Better start a new topic if you wish to pursue that theme.

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Add "Kinds" topic link.


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2010 5:10 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Iblis, posted 01-10-2010 7:19 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded
 Message 22 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2010 9:43 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 2239 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 20 of 26 (542559)
01-10-2010 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Minnemooseus
01-10-2010 6:31 PM


Re: The Randman and ICANT positions
I now pray to God, Jah, and/or TFSM that this is on topic.

I know you are trying to keep order, and you are wise to do so. But I'm not interested in attacking ICANT's natural history in this thread, I want to understand his use of the Gap. Perhaps these original animals are something like the Platonic ideals, originals that serve as blueprints for the imperfect animals we see now. I am interested in the presence of more than one Adam as well. And I would particularly like to know who that snake was in this version of the story, what its state was, what if anything happened to it before the event, and what "before" would mean in this context, if Eden occurred at the very very beginning. I will be particularly pleased if he sorts out the discrepancies in the cherubic Eden meme.

I would like a similar chronology from Buzsaw, but I don't think I'm going to get it unless he reads my posts. Randman I never took much interest in, he just seemed to make things up as he went along. Ray had a nice hypothesis one time, I remember, that could have really gone somewhere if Randman had stepped up and helped out; but he didnt. Some sort of fly in the annointment, you know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-10-2010 6:31 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 21 of 26 (542567)
01-10-2010 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
01-08-2010 10:12 PM


Re: Crreation Science
Creation science acknowledges and researches all observable evidences ...

Oh, don't be silly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 01-08-2010 10:12 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 22 of 26 (542568)
01-10-2010 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Minnemooseus
01-10-2010 6:31 PM


Re: The Randman and ICANT positions
Hi Moose,

Minnemooseus writes:

This seems to make ICANT a hybrid old life /and/ young life creationist.

I am old life, old universe. All life forms except modern man was called forth from their kind that had existed prior to Genesis 1:2, which was about 6,000+ years ago.

Nothing is said to be created at this time except the large sea serpents and modern mankind. I have made this statement in several threads.
So if that makes me a hybrid, I guess I am.

Minnemooseus writes:

I interpret this to mean that each "kind"

They were all formed from the ground except the woman that was made from the rib of the first man.

Minnemooseus writes:

This does not seem to line up with most anyone's theology or science history.

Science history does not go back that far.

Yes Moose no one agrees with me in theology. There are those who come close but they do not believe the man I speak of is a human, just some sort of pre-historic being.

I discussed all creatures being formed from the ground in my topic The Literal Genesis Account of Creation in Message 1 therefore everything had a common ancestor.

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-10-2010 6:31 PM Minnemooseus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by slevesque, posted 01-10-2010 11:30 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 23 of 26 (542570)
01-10-2010 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Iblis
01-10-2010 6:17 PM


Re: Old Universe
Hi Iblis,

Iblis writes:

I'm hoping to understand what fits between 1:1 and 1:2, which parts happen infinitely long ago and which parts happen recently, and where specific items like the various Falls and/or Floods fit in, in what order.

You can find a detailed list of events in Message 1

But it would be Off Topic to discuss it here.

Here we are supposed to be discussing creationist who believe in an old universe/old life/ or Young universe/young life if I understand Moose.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Iblis, posted 01-10-2010 6:17 PM Iblis has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-10-2010 10:49 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3781
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 24 of 26 (542573)
01-10-2010 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ICANT
01-10-2010 9:52 PM


Old Earth / Old or Young Life
Here we are supposed to be discussing creationist who believe in an old universe/old life/ or Young universe/young life if I understand Moose.

In my opinion, young Earth/young life creationism is a beaten to death theme, wrong right from the statement of "young".

My aims are to focus on things Earth (ie. "Keep the discussion down to Earth" ). Obviously, with an old Earth also comes some variety of old universe. As such, I am interested in how anti-evolutionists (not theistic evolutionists) fit the Earth biological history into a 4.5 billion year time-frame.

Minnemooseus


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2010 9:52 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 2983 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 25 of 26 (542575)
01-10-2010 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ICANT
01-10-2010 9:43 PM


Re: The Randman and ICANT positions
Hi ICANT,

you should really get things straight, because there is in this post a contradiction (as it appears to me) with another statement you made a couple of days ago in the sentient life thread:

They were all formed from the ground except the woman that was made from the rib of the first man.

This man was formed of the dust of the ground before any plant, animal or fowl was formed. He was the first creature made by God.

The man bluejay said was to replenish the earth was created after all animals, plants, and fowls, at the same time as the female. They were created in the image/likeness of God. This man was not formed from the dust of the ground and the woman was not created from a rib taken from the man. They were spoke into existence. They were never placed in a garden and forbidden to eat from any tree. In fact they were told they could eat from all trees.

This man and woman is the ancestor of modern humans.

But to the OP, I don't think there are many OECist. I would say there is a few YEC that stay more than a week. So an OEC is pretty rare I guess.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ICANT, posted 01-10-2010 9:43 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
3DSOC
Junior Member (Idle past 3508 days)
Posts: 26
Joined: 01-24-2010


Message 26 of 26 (544496)
01-26-2010 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
10-15-2009 10:18 PM


Hope this isn't too late
Adminnemooseus-

I probably fall into the YEC catagory although I'm not convinced that the earth is only 6-10k yrs old. Time doesn't matter to God. Did it actually take God 6 days as we know them to create the universe? In my view, that doesn't matter, the one point that does is that God created the universe.

I do believe that we all descend from Adam and so, man has only been on earth for 6-10k yrs.

3DSOC


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Adminnemooseus, posted 10-15-2009 10:18 PM Adminnemooseus has not yet responded

  
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