Modern human sex and Evo

What is the evolutionist justification for a woman having a clitoris? All joking aside. There doesn't seem to be any practical or cosmetic use for it. It's just for pleasure, hardly a tool for survival.

I would have thought this rather obvious.It makes sex very enjoyable, and sex makes offspring. Simple really.

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What is the evolutionist justification for a woman having a clitoris? All joking aside. There doesn't seem to be any practical or cosmetic use for it. It's just for pleasure, hardly a tool for survival.

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Why does a penis have nerve endings? Same reason.Why does food taste so good? Why does cutting yourself hurt so much?A little imagination can tell you how well we would survive and reproduce if any of these things were different.

then why don't other animals operate the same way? Instead for them it is purley on instinct spare a few species but overall only a couple of species enjoy sex. You can tell because most if not all species use it strictly for survival while only a couple like humans and bonobos use it in recreation.

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then why don't other animals operate the same way? Instead for them it is purley on instinct spare a few species but overall only a couple of species enjoy sex.

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That's a curious assertion! Have you ever asked them?

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You can tell because most if not all species use it strictly for survival while only a couple like humans and bonobos use it in recreation.

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Actually, more than a couple of species have recreational sex. Many species of animals have been observed in same-sex acts that can only be recreational.http://www.nationalgeographic.co.in/ProgramDetails.cgi?Un...(there are probably better links, but that was the only one I could find right now)[This message has been edited by zephyr, 09-06-2003]

How many of those other species have females with clitorises?

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How many of those other species have females with clitorises?

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Are you suggesting some kind of correlation or are you trying to get back to topic? I'm not sure where this line of reasoning is headed.My knowledge of clitorii in the animal world is anecdotal at best, but I know we're not the only species that has them.

You may find part of the answer here

Give a man a fact, answer one question. Teach a man to Google....Google...whereby I have discovered that there are in fact many species which possess a clitoris. FromThe Longest Clitoris - World Sex RecordsI learned this:

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The clitoris of the female whale is about 8 cm. long. Its apex is said to be "triloped" and is directed backwards. The whale clitoris, in common with the other sex organs of the largest cetaceans, are the biggest of any animal. Many other species have organs large for their body size, and in a number of species there is a long clitoris. We have already noted the large clitoris in the hyaena and the spider monkey. It is also surprisingly long in the mole (in the non-breeding season it is as long as the penis). In cats and civets the clitoris is a complicated structure reinforced with bone, and the organ is particularly prominent. Considering the absence of any functional role for the clitoris in most species it is a surprisingly impressive device in many species.
In common with the genital features of a wide range of species the clitoris is sometimes paired in a female animal. Or, put another way, the clitoris appears in two halves. Sometimes only part of the clitoris is paired, i.e. it branches towards the upper end. In marsupials the glans clitoridis frequently appears as a paired organ. In some reptiles a similar phenomenon can be observed in the penis but female reptiles possess no clitoris whatsoever-this does not seem to detract from enjoyment of coitus!

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Amusing coincidence there, no?

Heh Heh. I had considered suggesting that she use her search engine but figured she would think of it sooner or later. I suppose I simply enjoy doing for others what was done for me early on in this forum. I once wondered how the old timers here could suddenly appear with a list of links. Such mysterious magic. Ah heck Zephyr! Now the cat is out of the bag. [This message has been edited by doctrbill, 09-06-2003]

Well, a much better question would have been about, say, the presence of male nipples, as the clitoris actually has a function. However, in all likelyhood, it is merely a side effect of sexual dimorphism in the same way as male nipples are.In all properly developing embryos, there is no difference between the sexes until week 6. At about week 6, the SRY gene activates, and produces the protein SOX9. This leads to the eventual production of MIH (Mullerian Inhibiting Hormone). MIH causes most of the intial stages of dimorphism in the fetus - i.e., the initial set of organs can follow two separate developmental paths depending on the presence or absense of this hormone. However, MIH is not the end-all hormone; other androgens begin production in a cascade, and these two have effects leading to further differentiation between the sexes.Note that this is an idealized situation; many things can go wrong in this process. For example, AIS (Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome) occurs when a developing child has too few/unreceptive receptors for varying types of androgens. This can cause an XY child to appear as either a normal, or a mostly normal, woman (there will be some internal structural differences, however, since this is after MIH)). Earlier cases can also occur; one XY woman was found for which the reason that she was female instead of male was a single mutation of only two base pairs in SRY. It is kind of amazing to think of how what can separate the genders can be as little as 2 BP Other things that can go wrong include improper hormone production by the mother, androgenic drugs or other influences, androgenic hormone production by an XX embryo, estrogenic production by an XY embryo, varying abnormal chromosomal combinations, and much, much more.Regardless, the presence of androgens leads to numerous changes in the developing child's reproductive system. The labia fuse into the scrotum, the clitoris develops into a penis, and the location of the urethra shifts, to name a few. Of course, for the penis to exist, there has to be an analogue in the female body; this is the clitoris.The fact that it is an analogue can be clearly seen in two cases: women who produce androgens later in their life due to genetic anomalies, and FTM (female to male) transsexuals. As an example of the first case, in some places in the Dominican Republic have an inherited recessive trait leads children who are apparently born as what seems to be a normal woman, to start producing levels of testosterone normally associated with males. This is known locally as "guevedoche" ('penis at twelve", I believe), and typically induces not only physical changes (including descent of the testicles), but rather interestingly, significant changes in behavior as well. It is a variant of 5-Alpha reductase deficiency. FTMs, on the other hand, are genetically normal XX women. However, for reasons still debated, they feel the need to live as, and physically be, male (most people are more familiar with MTF - Male To Female - transsexuals, which are about 2 to 3 times more common). As part of the process to change their body, FTMs typically take testosterone. Since they differentiated into having ovaries instead of undescended testes as the "guevedoche" women have, those do not descend; however, they still have significant clitoris->penis development, usually ending up with about 1-3 inches in length. In fact, the simplest FTM surgery is merely to detach the base of the enlarged clitoris from the surrounding tissue.Hope this helps!------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

would you have sex if you didn't enjoy it? I don't think so.... that about the answer to this.... Humans have instincts as well. Before it happens we Know we will enjoy it just by the bodys reaction to things.
Would you Eat a steak if you didn't like steak?

Does this remind anyone else of Iain Banks' 'The wasp factory'?