Summations Only

Hi doctrbill, How much of the firm erets is covered by water?You have dry erets and you have erets covered by water, but it is all erets.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Otto, The discussion was not about what Moses knew or did not know. It was about the meaning of the Hebrew word erets which he used. Whose root means firm and erets means earth or land. It does not distinguish from dry land or land covered with water.In Genesis 1:9 the Hebrew word yabbashah means dry ground and preceeds erets, producing dry land as all the water was gathered into one place.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi bill, Are you sure there is no land or firm substance under water that would be called land if the water disappeared? You are correct I was looking at verse 10.But as Mike pointed out Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".This is a declarative statement of a completed action.What we see today existed when God created it in the beginning. Whether Moses knew what it was or not does not matter.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi bill, What did the erets in Genesis 1:1 describe and what did Moses mean by it.It seems to me he was refering to the entire earth.According to the account of the heavens and the earth in the day the Lord God created them. There was no water except a river that divided into 4 rivers that watered the land. No fish were created in this account found in Geneses 2:4-2:25.I think science puts forth it was dry in the beginning.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, Source Source Source Source Source Source SourceI am sorry I could not find your dictionary online.Neither could I find one that gave the primary meaning of earth that agrees with your definition.All these including the definition of אדץ agree that earth is talking about the whole earth.But you go right ahead an say it means anything you desire it to say. That is your privilage, just don't expect anyone else to agree with you.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi doctrbill, These some Bibles are translated by people. Some have their own bias.What difference does it make how it is translated?If Genesis 1:1 said: "In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Land".What part of the planet Earth could you exclude from what was created?That would include all the land above water, below water and all the molten land to the center of the Earth.So what is the problem? What part of planet earth was covered with water according to this verse? Do you have some particular verses in the Bible you are refering too?

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, It makes no difference what you think about the definitions provided.The Hebrew word אדץ that appears in Genesis 1:1 encompases the planet earth, all the land above water and under water all the way to the center of the Earth.Now if you are not satisfied with the definition given by the Hebrew Scholars write your own lexicon. So who decided to use it to represent the Hebrew word אדץ? It wasn't me.Maybe it was people who thought that was the best English word available to explain what existed in the Heaven in Genesis 1:1 called אדץ. Why do I have to accept anything that does not describe what existed in Genesis 1:1. So use land if you prefer.But all land includes all elements that constitute the Planet Earth.For it to mean a region or specific parcel of land it would have to be specified like it is here: These verses specify specific parcels of land. I have no idea who you are talking about when you say the writers of Genesis. I have no idea what those people might or might not know.Now if you want to talk about the man who wrote the original story that is something different. I don't know what he knew either but I know he spent 40 days with God and God gave him everything needed to know exactly what he was writing about. He did not witness things that took place billions of years ago but I have no doubt he was informed of what took place.Now what those people you keep talking about did to his original writings only confused the situation. That is the reason there is so much problems today. Too many people have had their hand in what we have today.That is the reason paul tells us the scripture is spiritually descerned. In other words without the Holy Spirit to lead a person in all truth as Jesus said He would do the Bible is foolishness to the natural man.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi doc, No.Not when Genesis 1:1 is speaking of everything you can see that exists and everything that exists that you can not see. Are you implying he was not hanging between heaven and earth?He was hanging in the atmosphere between the ground that was under his feet and outer space that is above our atmosphere. Translators can say anything they desire to say but nothing they say changes the meaning of what was said. It is just their understanding that is changed. That is very apparant from reading your posts.I suppose you prefer the story that the Universe came from ????? and began to exist because????? but all of a sudden it was there and began to expand because ????? well we know it did it is here and is expanding. Not a very good argument.Because every time I ask the question where the Universe came from or what caused it to begin to exist I get the answer "We don't Know".So if nobody knows, how do they know the Bible is wrong? But in the beginning there was no water. In fact science does not know where the water we have came from? They do have a lot of guesses but no theory yet.Genesis 1:1 is talking about the beginning.Genesis 1:2 is talking about billions of years after the beginning.But what is the difference in the land that is wet and the land that is dry?Remove the water and what do you have? Dry land I presume.What is the difference in the dry land, the land covered with water and the land that is liquid at the core of the earth? I presume the only difference is their location and viscosity. The dry earth was caused to appear from the wet earth in verse 9 and in verse 10 that part of erets was called dry earth.So what is the problem with that?In Genesis 1:2 the erets was covered with water there was no dry land but erets existed.It was then and still is now erets whether it is covered with water is dry or is molten. Since when has it become the responsibility of the postee to look up the information asserted by the poster at EvC?Present your evidence.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi doc, Here is the claim you made. Empire appears in the OT 1 time: The word Assyrian and land appear in the OT in these verses: The words whole and earth appear in 27 verses in the OT. Not one of them mention Assyria or the Assyrian Empire, Babylon or the Babylonian Empire or Macedonia or the Macedonian Empire.All the land appears in that exact form 68 times in the OT.These verses have the Empires you mentioned. All the earth appears in 59 verses in the OT.Not one of them mention Assyria or the Assyrian Empire, Babylon or the Babylonian Empire or Macedonia or the Macedonian Empire.So which of these scriptures are you refering too for support? I have no idea what Mr. Peterson you are talking about and did not waste my time googling the name. Genesis 1:1
בראשית
be-re-shit in beginning noun tells us when.
כרא ba-ra created verb of completed action tells us what.
אלהים e-lo-him God tells us who produced the action.
את et points out the object of the verb
השמים ha-sha-ma-yim the heaven
ואת ve-'et points out the object of the verb
האדץ ha-a-retz the earthMy Translation
In beginning created God the heaven the earthWhat is pharaphrased in this declarative statement of completed action?So what is left out of "the heaven"?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi doc, Yep. But after a 16 hour day some thing can slip by. How does that verse support the assertion you made? How does that verse support your assertion? How can something or someone I did not know existed have any effect on what I believe or not believe?How can I pharaphrase something that I have never seen?So why would I look him up? Since you peeked my interest I looked up Mr Peterson and his contemporary Bible that was published in 2001.Something that was written in 2001 could have no effect on what I was teaching since 1969. Unless I was privilaged to somehow to be transported forward in time to read it.I got what I said from the many years of the study of the Biblical Hebrew and Greek languages.My take on what Genesis 1:1 says.In the beginning. There is no possible way to determine when this took place. God is eternal and somewhere in eternity according to this verse He created the universe (heaven as Moses called it)Our word universe traces its origin back to the Greek word holos
which means all, whole, completely.The Greek word ouranos used in the LXX means 1)the expanse with all things visible in it. a)the universe, the world.Thus I conclude that the heaven in Genesis 1:1 was refering to everything that could be seen.This was a completed universe.The earth is mentioned as a specific creation so it was brought on line later.If that is refering to the time it was created in the beginning it would have been much smaller than it is today. God streached out the heavens and they are still expanding today.Thus I conclude there is probably things out there we can not see as the hubble improvements have proved. I believe there are things still further out that we have not yet seen.Thus my statement in Message 82So no I was not phraphrasing what Mr. Peterson said.My conclusions on Genesis 1:1In the beginning God created the completed Universe.
Sometime during that beginning then God created the Earth.
During this light period (DAY) that had ended at Genesis 1:2 with the evening that ended the first day with the light portion of day two. All the things in Genesis 2:5-4:24 took place in that light period (DAY) as it was declared in Genesis 2:4.Facts that agree with science:The Heaven (Universe) had a beginning.
The Earth had a beginning.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi doc, What is there to explore?If you translate erets as earth. Anywhere you go on this planet it is refered to as earth.If you translate erets as land. Anywhere you go on this planet it is refered to as land.If you translate erets as dirt. Anywhere you go on this planet it is refered to as dirt.If you take all the water out of the seas you have anyone of the three that you want to call it. You have never read much I have written have you? That verse does not say they were created at the same time.It only says they were created in the beginning. That verse says they were created the same day. That verse says a light period is day.
It also says that light period including the dark period found in Genesis 1:2 which ended at the next light period was the first day.So you have a light period that lasted from the beginning until we find darkness in Genesis 1:2.How long was that light period? I don't know the Bible does not say. Science says it was a long time.So if that light period lasted for billions of years you had a very long day.Which would benefit the production of all the bio-mass required to be able to produce the oil, coal, and natural gas that is miles underground.That would explain why there is no age recorded for Cain or any of his descendants for 7 generations.So there is nothing to preclude the Universe beginning to exist and then the Earth begin to exist a few billion years. They would still be created in the same day, as there was no night.Night did not exist until we find it in Genesis 1:2. I am not grabbing at straws. I am just reading what is wrote in the text whether it is right or wrong.Why would I be desperate to prove that the writer of Genesis was sharing advanced cosmology with God's chosen people?So far as I know He has only shared that with a 10 year old boy in 1949. I have never met anyone that believes what I do about the beginning of the Heaven and Earth.They would not have had a clue as to what he was talking about and could have cared less. They were wandering around in the desert for 40 years while Moses was writing the Torah.They went out every morning and picked up just enough food to last one day any extra would spoil. On Friday they picked up enough for two days and none spoiled.They had a cloud over them during the day to keep them cool and a pillar of fire at night to keep them warm.They had a rock that followed them around in the desert and supplied them with drinking water.Why would they question anything Moses said?When they did bad things happened. Are you sure about that?Since Abraham lived around 2300 BC they still got about 690 years to go to get your 5,000 years in.I guess the contributions of the followingJEWISH NOBEL WINNERS don't count.0.2% OF WORLD'S POPULATION (16-19 Million Jews)Literature (13)
1910 - Heyse, Paul
1927 - Bergson, Henri
1958 - Pasternak, Boris
1966 - Agnon, Yosef Shmuel (Israeli)
1966 - Sachs, Nelly
1976 - Bellow, Saul
1978 - Singer, Bashevis Isaac
1981 - Canetti, Elias
1987 - Brodsky, Joseph
1991 - Gordimer, Nadine
2002 - Kertesz, Imre
2004 - Jelinek, Elfriede
2005 - Pinter, HaroldChemistry (31)
1905 - Baeyer, Von Adolph
1906 - Moissan, Henri
1910 - Wallach, Otto
1915 - Willstaetter, Richard
1918 - Haber, Fritz
1943 - Hevesy, de Charles George
1961 - Calvin, Melvin
1962 - Perutz, Ferdinand Max
1972 - Stein, Howard William
1972 - Anfinsen, Christian B.
1977 - Prigogine, Ilya
1979 - Brown, Charles Herbert
1980 - Berg, Paul
1980 - Gilbert, Walter
1981 - Hoffmann, Roald
1982 - Klug, Aaron
1985 - Hauptman, A. Albert
1985 - Karle, Jerome
1986 - Herschbach, R. Dudley
1988 - Huber, Robert
1989 - Altman, Sidney
1992 - Marcus, Rudolph
1994 - Olah, George A.
1998 - Kohn, Walter
2000 - Heeger, Alan J.
2004 - Ciechanover, Aaron (Israeli)
2004 - Hershko, Avram (Israeli)
2004 - Rose, Irwin
2006 - Kornberg, Roger. D.
[Update]
2008 - Chalfie, Martin
2009 - Yonath, Ada E. (Israeli)Economics (26)
1970 - Samuelson, Anthony Paul
1971 - Kuznets, Simon
1972 - Arrow, Joseph Kenneth
1973 - Leontief, Wassily
1975 - Kantorovich, Leonid
1976 - Friedman, Milton
1978 - Simon, A. Herbert
1980 - Klein, Robert Lawrence
1985 - Modigliani, Franco
1987 - Solow, M. Robert
1990 - Markowitz, Harry
1990 - Miller, Merton
1992 - Becker, Gary
1993 - Fogel, Rober
1994 - Selten, Reinhard
1994 - Harsanyi, John C.
1997 - Merton,Robert
1997 - Scholes, Myron S.
2001 - Stiglitz, Joseph E.
2001 - Akerlof, George A.
2002 - Kahneman, Daniel (Israeli)
2005 - Aumann, Robert J. (Israeli)
[Update]
2007 - Hurwicz, Leonid (Oldest person to receive Nobel Prize)
2007 - Maskin, Eric S.
2007 - Myerson, Roger B.
2008 - Krugman, PaulPhysiology or Medicine (53)
1908 - Metchnikoff, Elie
1908 - Erlich, Paul
1914 - Barany, Robert
1922 - Meyerhof, Otto
1930 - Landsteiner, Karl
1931 - Warburg, Otto
1936 - Loewi, Otto
1944 - Erlanger, Joseph
1944 - Gasser, Spencer Herbert
1945 - Chain, Boris Ernst
1946 - Muller, Joseph Hermann
1947 - Cori, Gerty Theresa, Radnitz
1950 - Reichstein, Tadeus
1952 - Waksman, Abraham Selman
1953 - Krebs, Hans
1953 - Lipmann, Fritz Albert
1958 - Lederberg, Joshua
1959 - Kornberg, Arthur
1964 - Bloch, Konrad
1965 - Jacob, Francois
1965 - Lwoff, Andre
1967 - Wald, George
1968 - Nirenberg, W. Marshall
1969 - Luria, Salvador
1970 - Axelrod, Julius
1970 - Katz, Bernard Sir
1972 - Edelman, Maurice Gerald
1975 - Baltimore, David
1975 - Temin, Martin Howard
1976 - Blumberg, S. Baruch
1977 - Schally, Andrew V.
1977 - Yalow, Sussman Rosalyn
1978 - Nathans, Daniel
1980 - Benacerraf, Baruj
1982 - Vane, Sir John
1984 - Milstein, Cesar
1985 - Brown, Stuart Michael
1985 - Goldstein, L. Joseph
1986 - Cohen, Stanley
1986 - Levi-Montalcini, Rita
1988 - Elion, Gertrude
1989 - Varmus, Harold
1992 - Fischer, Edmond
1994 - Rodbell, Martin
1994 - Gilman, Alfred
1997 - Prusiner, Stanley B.
1998 - Furchgott, Robert F.
2000 - Kandel, Eric R.
2000 - Greengard, Paul
2002 - Brenner, Sydney
2002 - Horvitz, H. Robert
2004 - Axel, Richard
2006 - Fire, Andrew Z.Physics (49)
1907 - Michelson, Abraham Albert
1908 - Lippmann, Gabriel
1921 - Einstein, Albert
1922 - Bohr, Niels
1925 - Franck, James
1925 - Hertz, Gustav
1943 - Stern, Otto
1944 - Rabi, Issac Isidor
1945 - Pauli, Wolfgang
1952 - Bloch, Felix
1954 - Born, Max
1958 - Tamm, Igor
1958 - Frank, Ilya
1959 - Segre, Emilio
1960 - Glaser, A. Donald
1961 - Hofstadter, Robert
1962 - Landau, Davidovich Lev
1963 - Wigner, Eugene P.
1965 - Feynman, Phillips Richard
1965 - Schwinger, Julian
1967 - Bethe, Hans A.
1969 - Gell-Mann, Murray
1971 - Gabor, Dennis
1972 - Cooper, Leon N.
1973 - Josephson, David Brian
1975 - Mottleson, Benjamin
1976 - Richter, Burton
1978 - Penzias, Allan Arno
1979 - Weinberg, Stephen
1979 - Glashow, Sheldon
1981 - Schawlow, Arthur
1987 - Mller, K. Alexander
1988 - Lederman, Leon
1988 - Schwartz, Melvin
1988 - Steinberger, Jack
1990 - Friedman, Jerome
1992 - Charpak, Georges
1995 - Reines, Frederick
1995 - Perl, Martin
1996 - Osheroff, Douglas D.
1996 - Lee, David M
1997 - Cohen-Tannoudji, Claude
2000 - Alferov, Zhores I.
2003 - Abrikosov, Alexei A.
2003 - Ginzburg, Vitaly L.
2004 - Politzer, H. David
2004 - Gross, David J.
2005 - Glauber, Roy J. Source172 not counting the 8 that receive the Peace Prize.I think there is some pretty important people in that list.When you get the egg off your face you can apoligize to God's chosen people.Here is a few inventions of God's chosen people.Levi Strauss, Jeans, 1873
Maurice Levy (1), Lipstick, 1915
Lazlo Biro (1), Ballpoint Pen, 1938
J. Robert Oppenheimer, et al (1), Atomic Bomb, 1945
Edwin Herbert Land (1), Instant Photography, 1947
Denis Gabor (1), Holography, 1948
Peter Carl Goldmark (1), Long Playing Record, 1948
Robert Adler (1), Television Remote Control, 1950
Edward Teller, et al (1), Thermonuclear Bomb, 1952
Paul M. Zoll (2), Defibrillator, 1952 and Cardiac Pacemaker, 1952
Gregory Pincus (1/3), Contraceptives, early 1950s
Charles Ginsburg (1), Videotape, 1950s
Gordon Gould (1/3), Laser, 1958
Stanley N. Cohen (1/2), Genetic Engineering, 1973
Jason Lanier (1), Virtual Reality, 1989 SourceLooks like they did pretty well to me.But you are correct they did not invent aspirin or toilet paper.Rolled and perforated toilet paper as we're familiar with today was invented around 1880. Various sources attribute it to the Albany Perforated Wrapping (A.P.W.) Paper Company in 1877, and to the Scott Paper company in 1879 or 1890.Felix Hoffmann, a German chemist, produced a stable form of acetylsalicylic acid, more commonly known as aspirin, in 1897.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Nij,My aren't we touchy today. Here is the statement doctrbill made that I had replied too.In Message 89 doctrbill said: I replied:Are you sure about that?Since Abraham lived around 2300 BC they still got about 690 years to go to get your 5,000 years in.Had doctrbill's statement been:Perhaps the most persuasive reason to believe Genesis was NOT intended to reveal advanced knowledge is that its creators did not, produce a single aspirin or roll of toilet paper with which to amaze us heathen folk. Just like everyone else in the ancient Middle East (and some in the modern Middle East) they used their fingers.Then I would not have even given his statement a thought.But he had t add an anti semetic message when he added:and target audience, the Jews, God's chosen people, did not, in 5,000 years of chosen people history,That 5,000 years still has 690 years to go.So his statement infered that the Jews God's chosen people were a bunch of idiots not capleable of doing or accomplishing anything. What argument is flawed.I made no argument.I simply posted the names of 172 Jews who were Nobel winners.I then stated: in Message 93doctrbill owes God's chosen people the Jews a written apology in this thread.Regardless of what you think he said or what he meant to say he insulted every Jew that has ever lived or will live for the next 690 years.Jews he insulted included such men as: Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr, Max Born, Phillips Richard Feynman, and Jerome Fiedman just to mention a few.All for the purpose of bashing God.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, Do you mean they thought it looked like my avatar?Why wouldn't they think it looked that way?According to Genesis all the dry land was in one place which means it would be sourounded with water.According to the maps you presented the land mass was in one place at 2500 BC then divided into different locations after the flood which occured around 2345 BC. Your next map is about 1700 years later.You actually presented evidence that supports the Biblical account of the land mass being in one place and was then divided in the days of Peleg like the Bible says.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, In Message 471 you presented this map The Babylonian map of 2500 BCE. Flat disk encircled by water.It is the same map you are presenting now from Wikipedia it is dated at 600 BC. Which is correct?How did they know the land mass was surounded by water unless they could go all the way around the land mass?That agrees with the description given in Genesis: The later maps shows the land separated.That is what we observe today.Science does agree that at one time all the land mass was in one place.I know there is a supposed time problem but that does not change the facts.The land was in one place at one time and was then divided to what we see today.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi PD, Is that a warning that I am off topic?In Message 1 said: So nothing we have discussed is on topic. My point is that the Earth existed whether it was visible as dry land or land covered by water.The early map shows that those people knew they were surrounded by salt water.The later maps you presented shows that those people knew the land mass was not all in one place surrounded by salt water.You can interpert the evidence any way you desire too.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."