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Author Topic:   "Main Stream" evolutionists are atheists
pandion
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


Message 1 of 6 (545721)
02-05-2010 12:14 AM


A new member who calls himself "foxdog" made this assertion in message 83 in the Transitional Fossils Show Evolution in Process thread in the Biological Evolution Forum. It was his third post, and the third of his posts that were off topic.

Foxdog states:

Please note that I said many "Main Stream" evolutionists, such as the ones we typically see promoted by the media...i.e. Richard Dawkins.

I have two questions; how many mainstream evolutionists can foxdog name, and why is media promotion relevant to what mainstream evolutionists believe?

I wonder if Foxdog could inform me as to the religious belief of the following, mainstream evolutionists:

Richard Fortey
Pat Shipman
Alan Walker
Peter Grant
Rosemary Grant
Olivia Judson
Kenneth Miller
Ian Tattersall
Richard Leakey
Mauve Leakey
Mary Leakey
Lewis Leakey
John Gillespie
Donald Johanson
William Ryan
Walter Pitman
Jeffrey Schwartz
Mark Perakh
Stephen Gould
Donald Prothero
Douglas Futuyma
Jennifer Clack

The reason I ask is that the subject of the religious belief of any evolutionary researcher never came up in my studies of evolutionary biology. As a result, I am aware of the religious opinions of the above scientists only if they have chosen to make their beliefs known outside of any discussion of evolutionary biology. That is true only of Kenneth Miller and Stephen Gould, as far as I know.

If Foxdog (what an appropriate name for a discussion of evolution) knows of other mainstream evolutionists who claim to be atheists, then please tell us. From my own experience, I encountered few evolutionary biologists who claimed to be atheists. As I recall, the topic never came up because it was irrelevant.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added link directly to message 83.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Blue Jay, posted 02-05-2010 1:04 AM pandion has not yet responded
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 02-05-2010 8:29 PM pandion has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3910
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 6 (545726)
02-05-2010 12:25 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum (with reservations)
Thread copied here from the "Main Stream" evolutionists are atheists thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

I not enthused about the quality of the opening message and the nature of the topic, but I does seem to need to be promoted.

Adminnemooseus

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add post-promotion comment. Also added the "(with reservations)" to the subtitle.


  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 1035 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 3 of 6 (545731)
02-05-2010 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by pandion
02-05-2010 12:14 AM


Hi, Pandion.

I think it was actually Message 78 when he claimed that mainstream evolutionists are atheists:

foxdog writes:

Contrary to the assertions of main stream evolutionists (who also just happen to be atheists by the way), evolution is not testable, nor can it make any predictions.

Personally, I would be more interested in taking on the claims that follow his faux pas (i.e., that evolution is not testable and cannot make any predictions).

-----

At any rate, I'm still trying to decide whether it offends me that I've been kicked out of the "mainstream evolutionist" club by someone who...

(1) ...doesn't know me.
(2) ...certainly isn't a member of the club himself.
(3) ...doctors a quote from himself by adding the word "many," thus indicating that he knows he was wrong the first time around.
(4) ...uses "i.e." when he actually means "e.g." Okay, that's probably not related to anything, but it bugs me.


-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pandion, posted 02-05-2010 12:14 AM pandion has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20325
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 4 of 6 (545871)
02-05-2010 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pandion
02-05-2010 12:14 AM


Hi pandion,

Add Robert Bakker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bakker

quote:
An Ecumenical Christian minister, Bakker has said there is no real conflict between religion and science. He has advised non-believers and creationists to read the views put forward by Saint Augustine, who argued against a literal understanding of the Book of Genesis. [2]

Bakker actually posted on this site a while back.
Dr. Robert T. Bakker's thoughts on ID and Atheism in schools.
Message 218 of Is ID Scientific? (was "Abusive Assumptions")

He kind of puts the whole "evolutionists are atheists" into a proper perspective eh?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by pandion, posted 02-05-2010 12:14 AM pandion has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Coyote, posted 02-05-2010 11:49 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 443 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 5 of 6 (545892)
02-05-2010 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
02-05-2010 8:29 PM


Don't forget...
He kind of puts the whole "evolutionists are atheists" into a proper perspective eh?

Don't forget the Pope and a billion+ Catholics who do not have the problem with evolution that some of the other denominations have.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by RAZD, posted 02-05-2010 8:29 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
pandion
Member (Idle past 1337 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


Message 6 of 6 (545897)
02-06-2010 2:27 AM


I must admit that Adminnemooseus is correct. The OP isn't all that exciting. No wonder that he wasn't enthused about the quality of the post. This objection to evolution that is proffered by creationists isn't of very high quality in the first place.

One gets so tired of the constant claim by creationists that evolutionary science = atheism. Creationists aren't capable of understanding why that assertion is wrong. Creationists generally assert that any finding of science that is in conflict with their view that the Bible is historically accurate in every detail is wrong. Since they are "true" christians, anyone who disagrees with them must be an atheist. For them, there is no such thing as an christian that admits the correctness of evolutionary theory. Anyone who does not accept the tenets of their particular cult is, by definition, an atheist. Their cult rejects evolution. Ergo, anyone that accepts evolution is, by definition, an atheist.

I started this thread in an effort to keep the thread on topic. I see that I was unsuccessful.

Coyote writes:

Don't forget the Pope and a billion+ Catholics who do not have the problem with evolution that some of the other denominations have.


At one station while I was in the Army, the group chaplain was a friend. He was an ordained Lutheran minister. We spent lots of hours together driving to outlying units of the group. One of our topics of discussion on these rides was evolution. He understood and accepted evolutionary theory. And yet, he didn't seem to have any doubt about his faith.

Edited by pandion, : No reason given.


  
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