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anglagard
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 39 of 126 (546169)
02-09-2010 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
02-09-2010 12:08 AM


Dating Earth
Buzsaw writes:
Thank you, Coragyps. I'll do some searching.
As a librarian, please allow me to save you some time. Try Message 1 for the most recent iteration.
I have a question. How could you possibly miss what is IMO the greatest and most informative series of threads in the history of EvC? Remember, everything claimed is heavily referenced and peer reviewed, it is not a matter of just taking RAZD's word for every assertion.
Now Buz, you didn't miss that series of threads on purpose, did you?
Edited by anglagard, : Two last sentences and subtitle.
Edited by anglagard, : pluralize claim due to proper grammer

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 02-09-2010 12:08 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 02-09-2010 10:06 AM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 53 of 126 (546423)
02-10-2010 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Buzsaw
02-09-2010 10:06 AM


Re: Dating Dirt
Buzsaw writes:
I could be forgetful but surely not dishonest as you imply, as I have a healthy fear of Jehovah, god of us all, whether or not we acknowledge him.
It was not my intention to imply dishonesty but rather a possible prior lack of interest that may have caused you to miss what I, and I am sure others, consider the most important series of threads in the history of EvC. It was my intention to suggest that you may have missed these threads due to the fact you disagreed with what you assumed were their conclusions.
However, now that you appear to be genuinely interested in why nearly all individuals deeply and specifically trained in evaluating the evidence of an old universe and lack of a recent global flood provided from the earth (that God made at least according to some of us), I would hope you consider RAZD's threads with the same dispassionate distance that you would any 'purported evidence' from ICR or AIG.
But at least you are interested, I hope you can soon find the time to read and evaluate both positions using critical reasoning instead of any emotional attachments you may have in supporting fundamentalist over more mainstream or progressive forms of Christianity.
So, in so many words, no disrespect was intended.

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 02-09-2010 10:06 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by RAZD, posted 02-10-2010 11:13 PM anglagard has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 74 of 126 (546710)
02-13-2010 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Dr Adequate
02-13-2010 12:39 AM


Re: Dating dirt
Dr Adequate writes:
Coincidence ... ?
Don't forget annual calcite accumulation in caves, annual layers in ice sheets, and annual isotope differentiation in confined aquifers and ....

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-13-2010 12:39 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-13-2010 3:40 AM anglagard has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 75 of 126 (546712)
02-13-2010 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Buzsaw
02-12-2010 9:04 AM


Re: Dating Dirt
Buzsaw writes:
As for the streams and rivers, yes, the areas near them should change some, but there are many square miles which, before cultivated, evidently had a continuous yearly growth of grass and other ground cover to protect from extreme or prolonged loss of dirt. Dust storms in the plains states are not a major event as they are on the desert regions.
Are you apprised on specific areas where the stratigraphy is intact, the dating data on them and how large they are etc? This is more of what I'm interested in since it pertains more directly to your claim that dirt dating debunks the flood.
The best place to look for layers of soil accumulation is not topsoil, considering how it is disturbed by not just wind but also by reworking due to the very prairie grass and its roots, it is of course in the most undisturbed of depositional environments, namely lake beds, where such depositions create what is known in the vernacular as 'varves.'
I find it rather strange that you would consider unconsolidated soil as universally uniformitarian while consolidated rock as somehow considered falsely layered due to a so-called assumption of 'uniformitarianism.'
Now of course sometimes regardless of the actions of wind or roots, the layering takes place. However this can only occur uninterrupted where the forces of adding to the dirt are greater than those that subtract from the dirt.
Most science, particularly the geosciences are after all based upon what is often referred to as common sense, such as that on top is younger than that on the bottom (discounting overthrusts) or that which is denser over time sinks below that which is less dense.
At any rate the best examples of uninterrupted deposition are naturally undisturbed lakebeds. If you have another perspective upon this common sense deduction of geology, I assure you we are all ears (or eyes).

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Buzsaw, posted 02-12-2010 9:04 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 77 of 126 (546724)
02-13-2010 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Dr Adequate
02-13-2010 3:40 AM


Re: Dating dirt
Dr Adequate writes:
I don't know how we'd go about showing a correlation between the things you've mentioned and carbon dating or dendrochronology or deposition of varves.
They might suggest an old(er than creationists admit) Earth, but unless you know something I don't, they don't make the specific point I was trying to make, which is that anything screwing with dating methods would have to screw with radioactive decay and the growth of trees and the deposition of sediments in such a way that, by some enormous fluke, although they're all wrong, they all still agree.
Admittedly, I am painting a broader brush than any immediate year-to-year correlation between tree rings, varves, and the relationship between C12/C13/C14. What I am looking at is the correlation between climate as inferred from O16/O17/O18 ratios, often related to volcanic events, to the results from dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating.
Further elaboration, while needed to properly explain, must await a bit of time as it will result in a RAZD-sized post.
Edited by anglagard, : format

The idea of the sacred is quite simply one of the most conservative notions in any culture, because it seeks to turn other ideas - uncertainty, progress, change - into crimes.
Salman Rushdie
This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. - the character Rorschach in Watchmen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-13-2010 3:40 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-13-2010 6:34 AM anglagard has not replied

  
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