Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9163 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,412 Year: 3,669/9,624 Month: 540/974 Week: 153/276 Day: 27/23 Hour: 0/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Salvation vs. Helping Others
Peg
Member (Idle past 4950 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 4 of 30 (545866)
02-05-2010 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stile
02-04-2010 8:06 AM


Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
My preceeding discussion with iano has led to the following possibility that these two seemingly-different aspects are actually one-and-the-same, or maybe "one priority consisting of two parts" as iano puts it.
I would have to agree with iano on that point. Being a follower of Christ puts upon a christian an obligation to love his neighbour. Infact, this obligation is so binding that the scriptures tell us that
"If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment wehave from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also. 1John 4:20, 21.
Stile writes:
I am also interested in who you may think the Biblical Jesus Christ may go and talk to first.
Jesus spoke to both. He went to the self righteous religious people and to the poor lowly and downtrodden sinners. Jesus hope was that all people would acknowlege their sinfulness and turn to God in repentence.
On the other hand, Jesus did not always openly impart understanding to those whom he did not feel were deserving. He could openly see who's heart was right toward God and who's heart was dark which is why he spoke in parables and illustrations. This is why said "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine. Matt. 7:6
So Jesus can see a good person from a bad person and like you, he knows how to make that distinction. But that judgement is not for us to make. As christians, we are obligated to impart biblical truth to all people. But it is up to Jesus to judge them based on what they do with that knowledge.
Stile writes:
3. How many different times did Jesus identify himself to other people as the single necessary tool for salvation?
He did this very few times. The reason is that he wanted people to draw their own conclusion as to his identity. He didnt want to tell them that he was the Messiah, thus obligating them to believe, he wanted them to accept him based on their faith. They saw his miracles for themselves and these were enough for a good hearted person to put faith in him.
But not all people did not put faith in him even though they saw his miracles because their hearts were not inclined toward goodness.
Stile writes:
4. When attempting to teach others, would Jesus generally do both of these things? (Provide a parable and also identify himself as the single necessary tool for salvation?) If so, which did he do first?
the parable always came first. The reason why he spoke illustrations was as he told his diciples at Matthew 13:10This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it; and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, ‘By hearing, you will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, you will look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive.’
Notice he said that their 'hearts had grown unreceptive' ?
So only good hearted people would get the sense of Jesus teaching and they would be drawn to him by faith whereas a person with an unceptive heart would not be moved by Jesus teaching, nor would they demonstrate any faith in who he was.
Of course this doesnt mean that everyone who claims to believe in Jesus is going to be a good person either. We know that there are many people who claim to be christians who obviously are not. But the point is that Jesus knows who these ones are and in time he will deal with them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stile, posted 02-04-2010 8:06 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Stile, posted 02-15-2010 12:14 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4950 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


(1)
Message 10 of 30 (547011)
02-15-2010 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Stile
02-15-2010 12:14 PM


Re: So, North or South?
stile writes:
So, who would you visit first? The man in the North building or the man in the South building? Or, are you telling me that you would not visit either of them?
I would not differentiate between them, thats not a christians job. I would visit both but probably be able to spend more time with the nice person because a nice person would welcome the visit whereas the other guy would likely send me on my way.
the point is, we are not judges.
Stile writes:
Like you said, Jesus rarely identified himself as he'd rather let his message do the talking and have others make up their own minds about him. Shouldn't we do the same? Shouldn't we rarely identify Jesus Christ or any other background reasoning/information and focus on the message of being good and nice?
i agree that our conduct is more important then out knowledge. If i have lots of knowlege about God but still behave indecently, of what good is the knowledge to me or anyone else? Its worthless.
But knowledge is important if we are to use our powers of reason. To worship God and live the life of a christian, we must have a reason to do so. Without accurate knowledge, our reasons may not be good enough to keep us focused on such a life. Or, the wrong knowledge may actually move us to do things that are in opposition to God, such as blowing up planes and buildings for instance.
So Jesus was very big on his followers taking in accurate knowlege...he even said so at John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Stile, posted 02-15-2010 12:14 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Stile, posted 02-16-2010 7:24 AM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4950 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 14 of 30 (547189)
02-17-2010 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Stile
02-16-2010 7:24 AM


Re: So, North or South?
im sorry, i thought i did answer the question.
Perhaps the question is more complicated then it looks. Exactly what are you asking?
Would i visit a person i knew was nice over a person i knew was not?
i can tell you now that I have been in the situation where I have knocked on a persons door whom i knew was not a nice person. The point is, we go to them anyway because we are not there to judge them as good or bad.
Christians should leave the judging to someone who is above reproach... and there is no christian who is above reproach except Jesus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Stile, posted 02-16-2010 7:24 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Stile, posted 02-17-2010 12:39 PM Peg has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024