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Author Topic:   Omphalism
nwr
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Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 72 of 151 (546585)
02-11-2010 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Straggler
02-11-2010 2:10 PM


Re: Empiricism Vs Omphalism
Straggler writes:
This entire discussion and this entire topic resulted from your assertion that we must necessarily be agnostic about all claims of "metaphysical truth".
This entire discussion started with a question you raised in Message 137 in thread Biological Evidence Against Intelligent Design. Yet now you say that I started it. And those words "must necessarily" are a complete invention. I was only expressing an opinion, and used "should". So now you seem to be taking an accusatory attitude on the basis of false charges you are making against me.
Straggler writes:
My entire point is that omphalists are not making a metaphysical claim. They are making a very physical claim.
They are making a claim that is quite deliberately exempt from any possibility of being examined by physics. Yet you say it is a physical claim.
Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "physical."
Edited by nwr, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Straggler, posted 02-11-2010 2:10 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Straggler, posted 02-16-2010 5:58 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 77 of 151 (547175)
02-16-2010 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Straggler
02-16-2010 5:58 PM


Re: Empiricism Vs Omphalism
Straggler writes:
Perhaps you could explain what you mean by "physical."
Omphalists are making a claim as to how long the universe has physically existed. And claiming some non-empirical means of knowing this.
You did not explain what you mean by "physical" and why you treat the omphalist's claim as a physical one.
Straggler writes:
I think they are talking out of their arses.
Well, so do I. But that does not change the fact that they have introduced a radical skepticism about empirical evidence.
Edited by nwr, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Straggler, posted 02-16-2010 5:58 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Straggler, posted 02-17-2010 5:29 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 81 of 151 (547258)
02-17-2010 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Straggler
02-17-2010 5:29 PM


Re: Empiricism Vs Omphalism
Straggler writes:
Do you accept that time is a physical property?
"Time" is a name we use for a physical property. It does not follow that every use of the word "time" is making a physical claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Straggler, posted 02-17-2010 5:29 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Straggler, posted 02-17-2010 5:50 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 86 of 151 (547288)
02-17-2010 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Straggler
02-17-2010 5:50 PM


Re: Empiricism Vs Omphalism
Straggler writes:
So what exactly is a Last Thursdayist claiming with regard to time then?
He is claiming that empirical methods for determining time give wrong answers. The reasonable conclusion is that his concept of time is very different from that of the physical time that we ordinarily use.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Straggler, posted 02-17-2010 5:50 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Straggler, posted 02-19-2010 2:30 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 94 of 151 (547481)
02-19-2010 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Straggler
02-19-2010 2:30 PM


Re: Empiricism Vs Omphalism
Straggler writes:
So the entire premise of your argument is that last Thursdayism has nothing whatsoever to do with last Thursday.
If your ego requires that you engage in these silly games of oneupmanship, then I will leave you to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Straggler, posted 02-19-2010 2:30 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Straggler, posted 02-19-2010 5:29 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
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