Straightforward, hard-to-answer-questions about the Bible/Christianity

Hi JUC, First things first. God did not make you. Your mother and father made you.God created man in Genesis 2:7 and that man was perfect.
That man chose to disobey God and thus all mankind are now imperfect. God never created anything that was not perfect that I know of. If you know of any present it. Why can't God be perfect and get mad at what man does?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

A perfect man chose to disobey God?

Hello Icant, The problem I see with this interpretation, is that it assumes that God did not know the outcome of his own creation. If God is omnipotent then he had to of known that man would choose to disopbey his commandment, thus becoming imperfect. It still equates to God creating an imperfect creation no matter how I look at it. Unless as I stated earlier that God is not omnipotent, or the creation of evil and imperfection was necesarry for life/creation to occur at all.

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'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX

Hi ZenMonkey, I'll try,God does not deliver any person to eternal torment.The first man delivered mankind into the family of the devil.God provided a way that mankind could be redeemed from the family of the devil.Jesus died on the cross for that redeemption.Mankind only has to accept the offer of a free full pardon to receive that redemption.Jesus will cast anyone into the lake of fire that refuses to accept the sacrifice He made on the cross of Calvary.Mankind is condemned because they have not believed.The Church was commisioned by Jesus to go into all the world and spread the word.So don't blame God for the failure of the Church.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Fine. I accept. Sign me up for not going to Hell.Is there anyone who wants eternal torment? Well, they're welcome to it. But for me, if God exists then he can pardon me all he likes, I have absolutely no objection.

Hi rueh, Yes God knew the man was going to choose to disobey Him. Just as He knew you was going to write the above paragraph today.Did He make you write the above paragraph I referenced?God did not make the man disobey Him either.God did create evil as He created the devil and he is perfect. If there was no evil you would not have a choice.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hello Icant, Well that depends I quess. If God knows what I will do before I ever do it than the idea of free will is moot. Since God would already know whether or not he would condem me to hell or lavish me with paradise before I was ever born. In which case we are back to God bringing forth creations whose fate is already predetermined regardless of their circumstances.

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'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX

Congratulations! I was going to give Buzsaw the gold medal for Totally Missing the Point for Message 75 in the Is America a Christian Nation? thread. But you've blown right past him! He'll have to settle for the silver.Yes, yes, blah blah blah, Adam's sin, not God's fault, Christ's sacrifice, free pardon, spread the Gospel, etc. etc. I get all that, really. After hearing it in a thousand different ways for years, I really do get that. However, you're actually making my point for me.Given all that you've said as absolutely true, this path to reconcilliation with God (or whatever you want to call it) does absolutely nothing for the majority of mankind. Look again at what I actually asked. The vast majority of all the people who've ever lived, even if you really believe that the world is only thousands of years old, have never, ever, ever had a chance to hear the gospel and know about this free pardon. Either they were born before Christ, or they lived in a place that never received the Gospel until after they were dead. And yet, nothing in the Bible or any other authoritative Christian text that I know of says that these people were sinless or weren't part of "the family of the devil." As far as I understand the English language, "mankind" means everybody - here, there and everywhere, past, present and future. No free ride if you lived in South America in 900 CE. No Jesus = no salvation. Or can you come up with other ways besides "the Way, the Truth and the Light" to get right with God?Again, I'm not using this as evidence that God doesn't exist. God could be evil, the moral inferior of His own creations. There might very well be some wicked Jew wizard that can use magic to toss everyone in the Lake of Fire just because He thinks it's funny. But the way the rules of the Salvation Game are laid out, there's no rational way around the conclusion that God is going to make pretty much everyone burn. What the heck - it's even worse than I first made out. Most Christians can't even agree about what magic words you have to say to get the Get Out of Hell Free card. After all, you can't really be sure until you're dead and it's too late. It's pitiful.I've seen any number of Christians twist and squirm, trying to avoid the inescapable conclusion that this is a totally revolting, unjust set-up. So again, why do you call this God who plays this sort of game good and loving?Try again.

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I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die.
-John Lydon

Wow I didn't think it would bring so much attention.Thanks for all the answers, I'll clarify some points about the thread as to keep it going.To ICANT: The goal is not to answer the questions that are given. I'm just accumulating them to bring them to my apologetics course and ask them, then come back here hopefully with some answers.To Percy: Yeah I specified atheist but of course anyone can join in the fun (ex: Catholic scientist asked a very good question).I think the reason I said atheists in particular is that they tend to be much more virulent and straightforward in their objections to christianity. While agnostics tend to be more belief-friendly. And I want to have the most virulent and straightforward questions in my class to see how those other questions will respond.To all the others: Thanks for the questions, one thing would be to present the objections in a simple and clear question form, and put it n bold in your text. Also, if it is a question that is related to specific events in the Bible please put the verses as reference so I don't have to look into each question to find exactly what part you are talking about.

Simple. You people want to put gay people in jail for simply being gay. And since god hasn't struck you dead yet, it's proof enough for me that god doesn't exist.

Once upon a time, I had this very discussion with... I think it was Ray Martinez. I'm not sure. But he did give me a perfectly good answer for this dilemma. He said that in the bible god did say that he reveals himself to all of mankind at one time or other. In other words, those people who lived in South America in 900 CE had the holy spirit revealed god to them but they refused accept god into their lives. Unfortunately, I never got anything more specific than that. But apparently, every single person in history of the world has had god revealed to him/her at some point. But they refused to accept god and therefore deserved to go to hell.

Do I have to start voting republican or protest at colleges with the "god hates fags" sign?

I've been meaning to go to the eye doctor to see whether or not my recent blurred night vision is due to medication or just to advancing age. Now, apparently, I'll have to go on emergency basis, as my eyes have rolled so far back in my head that the optic nerves are twanging like guitar strings.Yeah, that does seem to be the best that Christian apologetics can come up with. Personally, I prefer it when they just shrug their shoulders and say, "Well, I'm sure that God will take care of that in His own way." It's more honest to admit ignorance, even if it's willful ignorance, than to make up utter bullshit like that just to make yourself feel better.

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I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die.
-John Lydon

Let's go over this piecemeal, shall we? God created mankind "perfect," or so you allege. Yet God created the temptation for man and created the desire for sin. God himself claimed to create evil itself, so it therefore stands to reason that perfection includes sin, suffering, death, etc.Where in that do you see perfect human beings made by a perfect God? "Perfection" is a completely subjective term relative to whoever thinks something is perfect or imperfect. Because how can you create imperfect beings and then get mad at them when they do what you designed them to do, which is sin? And please don't tell me he didn't create us to sin when there are none that are perfect and "none are righteous, no, not even one," according to David which was later repeated by Jesus? In fact, that we are imperfect and fallible is the ONLY reason we need salvation in the first place!You starting to see the circular logic?What purpose did it serve God to create a tree of knowledge of good and evil only to tell them not to go near it, especially when they had no concept of consequence? (Remember, they're perfect!)Why create it at all, since its only function is to tempt?Why create death and suffering when almost all of the focus is in the afterlife? Why is there even a physical universe when so much emphasis is on the heavenly realm? It doesn't make any sense.Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

Exactly.... What kind of mental gymnastics do you suppose it takes for a fundamental Christian to uncontradict that basic concept?

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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston