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Author
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Topic: Wingnuts Praying for Obama's Death
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Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4963 days) Posts: 572 From: UK Joined: 10-22-2009
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Message 31 of 124 (547314)
02-18-2010 4:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 29 by Coragyps
02-17-2010 2:32 PM
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Re: Point?
I've double-checked the Terry Eagleton article just to make sure I wasn't misquoting. I wasn't word-for-word perfect but effectively it's what he said. Here's the complete paragraph and a link to the article in New Humanist magazine, which, in my view, portrays him as a total waste of space. How on earth did this guy get into Cambridge University? Ah, because he applied to read theology! Terry Eagleton (in all his glory): "That's right. Aquinas is saying that the relationship between God and the world is about the fact that the world is in some ways His. Not in the sense that my shoes are mine because I manufactured them but because at the centre of the world lies his love and freedom. God didn't create the world. He loved it into being. Now what that means, God knows, but that's exactly what Aquinas was saying. The concept of God is what will not let you go. He will not let you slip through his fingers. It's that kind of unconditional love. If you like, that's impossible. We can only know conditional love, but if you are to have some kind of authentic idea of God that's the place from which you have to start, not seeing God as some kind of manufacturer." Tragic hero: Laurie Taylor interviews Terry Eagleton | New Humanist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by Coragyps, posted 02-17-2010 2:32 PM | | Coragyps has not replied |
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Hyroglyphx
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Re: Sad
And they get away with it because they hide it behind their religion. People can say whatever they want, so long as it is not a threat. Religion or irreligion are irrelevant to free speech. We all enjoy it.
Since when did it become acceptable to say such things about the President? What?!?! Every single president has faced slander in one form or another and most have had threats made against their life. That's the nature of the job, which is why the Secret Service exists. No matter what, as a president, someone, somewhere will despise you to the point of wanting to kill you.
You brush it off as "no big deal", "he's just a religious wackjob", but someone from his church has already killed in the name of his god. Is it going to be "no big deal" when they assassinate the President? It is a big deal, for the Secret Service. The problem is that I suspect you're cherry picking on what appalls you and what doesn't. Do you have any idea how many death threats were made towards President Bush? Is it only an issue when a Christian zealot makes a death threat towards a president you personally like that it becomes a problem? What about a Muslim extremist that threatens a president you don't like? Did you throw a hissy fit for President Bush's would-be assassins or was it no big deal to you? For the record, I'm not religious and I didn't vote for either Bush or Obama.
"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by hooah212002, posted 02-16-2010 2:05 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Apothecus
Member (Idle past 2432 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: 01-05-2010
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Re: Sad
I voted for Bush the first time 'round because I thought he was the lesser of two evils. During that first term my view took a left turn, and after not voting for Jorje in the 2004 election, wound up considering him a total buffoon by the end of his office. I think most reasonable people would agree that no matter your political leanings (or lack thereof), an assassinated president does not a stable nation make. Did I hear of assassination threats to GW? Yes. Did I secretly wish they would come to fruition? Absolutely not. The threat of severe turmoil to national security, the economy, society and politics in general would be more than most reasonable people would prefer to experience. And I'll be honest: he wasn't that bad of a guy; just sort of an idjit. There are those who are usually reasonable people (such as my father, currently) who think that it'd just be better if a sitting president was offed. I think these are folks who aren't especially adept at following a thought to its logical conclusion, and if pressed, would most likely back down. But then there are those exceptionally unreasonable and irrational nut-jobs who would seriously, honestly dance a jig were Obama to be gunned down. And these are the folks I think the Secret Service watches for most closely. I think this pastor deserves a private talk with the Secret Service. The First Amendment allows for anyone to voice any opinion he or she wishes to voice, as long as it is devoid of the type of speech which may incite violence. IMO, this pastor toes this line, if not steps over it.
Did you throw a hissy fit for President Bush's would-be assassins or was it no big deal to you? Not to speak for hooah because I'm sure he can defend himself, but I think you may be pigeonholing him here. I think you're right in one respect: those who are vehemently anti-religion will zero in on any report of the religious engaging in hateful speech such as this (in the name of religion, no less), and more so if it's in reference to taking the life of a political figure you either a. voted for or b. just respect in general. But I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that attempting to paint hooah in this light may be a bit of a misrepresentation. However, I could also be full of shit.  Have a good one.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-23-2010 5:08 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Re: Sad
People can say whatever they want, so long as it is not a threat. Religion or irreligion are irrelevant to free speech. We all enjoy it. I agree. However, do these people pray fro things they don't want to happen? Do they pray for things they don't think will come true? It's about as close to a threat as you get without coming out and saying it.
What?!?! Every single president has faced slander in one form or another and most have had threats made against their life. That's the nature of the job, which is why the Secret Service exists. No matter what, as a president, someone, somewhere will despise you to the point of wanting to kill you. I am fully aware that president's get their lives threatened. My qualm here is that these are religious folk. They are SUPPOSED to be the moral ones, are they not? John Q. Whackjob who is a lunatic for lunacy sake....isn't the one trying to set a moral example for the world. Christianity DOES claim that.
It is a big deal, for the Secret Service. The problem is that I suspect you're cherry picking on what appalls you and what doesn't. Do you have any idea how many death threats were made towards President Bush? Is it only an issue when a Christian zealot makes a death threat towards a president you personally like that it becomes a problem? What about a Muslim extremist that threatens a president you don't like? Did you throw a hissy fit for President Bush's would-be assassins or was it no big deal to you? I only recently started giving two shits about the world around me. I didn't pay attention to much outside of my own life until maybe '08. So, no, i didn't "throw a hissy fit" about anything Bush related, because I didn't give a shit. However, as I alluded to earlier, the christian religion is supposed to be held to a higher standard than this. More and more I am learning it's all a mere facade.
Is it only an issue when a Christian zealot makes a death threat towards a president you personally like that it becomes a problem? I am agnostic about our current president.
What about a Muslim extremist that threatens a president you don't like? Sadly, I have come to expect it from the muslim faith, so it wouldn't strike me the same way this does.
"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws." -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 32 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-23-2010 5:08 PM | | Hyroglyphx has not replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.5
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Message 35 of 124 (548056)
02-25-2010 9:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Apothecus
02-23-2010 10:10 PM
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
And I'll be honest: he [Bush Jr.] wasn't that bad of a guy Wow. Insert the sound of my head exploding. Again. Check out his crimes and articles for impeachment:
It's pretty clear that history will judge George W. Bush as one of the worst presidents everif not the worst. Here are impeachment articles introduced by Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio In the United States House of Representatives Monday, June 9th, 2008 A Resolution Article I Creating a Secret Propaganda Campaign to Manufacture a False Case for War Against Iraq. Article II Falsely, Systematically, and with Criminal Intent Conflating the Attacks of September 11, 2001, With Misrepresentation of Iraq as a Security Threat as Part of Fraudulent Justification for a War of Aggression. Article III Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction, to Manufacture a False Case for War. Article IV Misleading the American People and Members of Congress to Believe Iraq Posed an Imminent Threat to the United States. Article V Illegally Misspending Funds to Secretly Begin a War of Aggression. Article VI Invading Iraq in Violation of the Requirements of HJRes114. Article VII Invading Iraq Absent a Declaration of War. Article VIII Invading Iraq, A Sovereign Nation, in Violation of the UN Charter. Article IX Failing to Provide Troops With Body Armor and Vehicle Armor Article X Falsifying Accounts of US Troop Deaths and Injuries for Political Purposes Article XI Establishment of Permanent U.S. Military Bases in Iraq Article XII Initiating a War Against Iraq for Control of That Nation's Natural Resources Article XIIII Creating a Secret Task Force to Develop Energy and Military Policies With Respect to Iraq and Other Countries Article XIV Misprision of a Felony, Misuse and Exposure of Classified Information And Obstruction of Justice in the Matter of Valerie Plame Wilson, Clandestine Agent of the Central Intelligence Agency Article XV Providing Immunity from Prosecution for Criminal Contractors in Iraq Article XVI Reckless Misspending and Waste of U.S. Tax Dollars in Connection With Iraq and US Contractors Article XVII Illegal Detention: Detaining Indefinitely And Without Charge Persons Both U.S. Citizens and Foreign Captives Article XVIII Torture: Secretly Authorizing, and Encouraging the Use of Torture Against Captives in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Other Places, as a Matter of Official Policy Article XIX Rendition: Kidnapping People and Taking Them Against Their Will to "Black Sites" Located in Other Nations, Including Nations Known to Practice Torture Article XX Imprisoning Children Article XXI Misleading Congress and the American People About Threats from Iran, and Supporting Terrorist Organizations Within Iran, With the Goal of Overthrowing the Iranian Government Article XXII Creating Secret Laws Article XXIII Violation of the Posse Comitatus Act Article XXIV Spying on American Citizens, Without a Court-Ordered Warrant, in Violation of the Law and the Fourth Amendment Article XXV Directing Telecommunications Companies to Create an Illegal and Unconstitutional Database of the Private Telephone Numbers and Emails of American Citizens Article XXVI Announcing the Intent to Violate Laws with Signing Statements Article XXVII Failing to Comply with Congressional Subpoenas and Instructing Former Employees Not to Comply Article XXVIII Tampering with Free and Fair Elections, Corruption of the Administration of Justice Article XXIX Conspiracy to Violate the Voting Rights Act of 1965 Article XXX Misleading Congress and the American People in an Attempt to Destroy Medicare Article XXXI Katrina: Failure to Plan for the Predicted Disaster of Hurricane Katrina, Failure to Respond to a Civil Emergency Article XXXII Misleading Congress and the American People, Systematically Undermining Efforts to Address Global Climate Change Article XXXIII Repeatedly Ignored and Failed to Respond to High Level Intelligence Warnings of Planned Terrorist Attacks in the US, Prior to 911. Article XXXIV Obstruction of the Investigation into the Attacks of September 11, 2001 Article XXXV Endangering the Health of 911 First Responders Site Not Configured | 404 Not Found
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Apothecus, posted 02-23-2010 10:10 PM | | Apothecus has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 36 by Apothecus, posted 02-25-2010 3:12 PM | | dronestar has replied |
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Apothecus
Member (Idle past 2432 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: 01-05-2010
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Message 36 of 124 (548101)
02-25-2010 3:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 35 by dronestar
02-25-2010 9:12 AM
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
Hey Dronester.
Dronester writes: Apothecus writes: And I'll be honest: he [Bush Jr.] wasn't that bad of a guy
Wow. Insert the sound of my head exploding. Again. Touché. Maybe "Idjit" was too tame. Would "Consarned Flea-bitten Anti-Intellectual S.O.B. A-hole Felonious Idjit" do it for you? Or something in between? Sorry I misunderestimated your position. Have a good one. 
"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 35 by dronestar, posted 02-25-2010 9:12 AM | | dronestar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 38 by dronestar, posted 02-25-2010 4:04 PM | | Apothecus has replied |
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Taq
Member Posts: 10038 Joined: 03-06-2009 Member Rating: 5.3
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Message 37 of 124 (548106)
02-25-2010 3:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 33 by Apothecus
02-23-2010 10:10 PM
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Re: Sad
And I'll be honest: he wasn't that bad of a guy; just sort of an idjit. I've always thought that GWB would have made a great drinking buddy (and from the stories I have heard he was). So in that sense he wasn't a "bad guy". I doubt that any of us would want our drinking buddies to run the country. At the same time I really, really disliked GWB the president. However, I never wished harm on the guy, still don't, and never will. That is why I find these anti-Obama wingnuts so distasteful.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Apothecus, posted 02-23-2010 10:10 PM | | Apothecus has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 39 by Apothecus, posted 02-25-2010 4:20 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.5
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Message 38 of 124 (548110)
02-25-2010 4:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 36 by Apothecus
02-25-2010 3:12 PM
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
Thanks for the light-hearted reply and "have a nice day" wishes. Here are some people who WON'T be having a nice day: Over two million Iraqi refugees are poor or homeless because of the ILLEGAL and IMMORAL US invasion. Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis live with war related injuries. For the next couple of CENTURIES, Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis will develop cancer or have birth defects due to depleted uranium weapons used by US forces. Over a million innocent Iraqis including women and childen are DEAD, . . . and counting. Howard Zinn (August 24, 1922 — January 27, 2010) recently died. He was an American historian, author, activist, playwright, intellectual and Professor. But mostly he was known for his the civil rights, civil liberties and anti-war movements. One item that stuck with me was a person ascribing that Zinn "heard the screams of other people". Apothecus, although you only voted for Bush Jr. once, do YOU ever hear the screams your vote caused? Have a nice day.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 36 by Apothecus, posted 02-25-2010 3:12 PM | | Apothecus has replied |
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Apothecus
Member (Idle past 2432 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: 01-05-2010
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Message 39 of 124 (548112)
02-25-2010 4:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 37 by Taq
02-25-2010 3:36 PM
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Re: Sad
I've always thought that GWB would have made a great drinking buddy (and from the stories I have heard he was). So in that sense he wasn't a "bad guy". I doubt that any of us would want our drinking buddies to run the country. From what I understand, Dubya gave up the booze when he "done got born agin'." But in college and early adulthood he evidently drank like it was going out of style, and would have left me and my drinking buddies in the dust. But in the interest of full disclosure, I can't say I never woke up in a pool of my own vomit after a night of college bingeing.
However, I never wished harm on the guy, still don't, and never will. That is why I find these anti-Obama wingnuts so distasteful. Agreed.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 37 by Taq, posted 02-25-2010 3:36 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 40 of 124 (548123)
02-25-2010 5:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 38 by dronestar
02-25-2010 4:04 PM
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis live with war related injuries. For the next couple of CENTURIES, Tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis will develop cancer or have birth defects due to depleted uranium weapons used by US forces. Over a million innocent Iraqis including women and childen are DEAD, . . . and counting. None of which, of course, were caused by Saddam......
"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws." -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by dronestar, posted 02-25-2010 4:04 PM | | dronestar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 42 by dronestar, posted 02-26-2010 9:06 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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Apothecus
Member (Idle past 2432 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: 01-05-2010
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Message 41 of 124 (548126)
02-25-2010 6:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 38 by dronestar
02-25-2010 4:04 PM
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
Hey Dronester.
Apothecus, although you only voted for Bush Jr. once, do YOU ever hear the screams your vote caused? Wow. Just, wow. I can understand why we should, when presented with facts such as those, feel dismayed and angry. I admit I've seen or read some of them and, to be honest, didn't really do a good enough job of internally personalizing these things, or at the least, didn't relate well enough to travesties committed against humans just like me to make these things real. At least not real enough to think about on a daily basis. Do I think I should not have voted for GW in '00? Yes, in hindsight. Was I an informed voter? Yes, I think so. Did my view, as well as my political leanings change afterward? You bet your butt. Could anyone who voted for this imbecile have known these things would happen? C'mon. So what you're saying is all those who voted for Bush in either election (and possibly regretted it) should feel daily, wracking guilt about these crimes, correct? Sorry, but that's not how most people work. Sure, these were terrible, terrible crimes, committed (or at least authorized) by a sitting president, but do I feel some personal responsibility for these crimes? Maybe in a vague sort of way, I guess. Do I hear the children's screams? Well, that's a bit ... dramatic. Sorry if that upsets you. So was your intent just to bring to light facts which maybe some people aren't aware of, or might just like to sweep under the rug? If so, that's great. Thanks. But if your intent was to come off as a judgemental arse, well then ... "Mission accomplished!" Thanks for the light-hearted reply and "have a nice day" wishes. I assume the above was facetious at best, a *flame* veiled with sarcasm at worst, but to your credit, it took me a couple times reading your post to come to that conclusion. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Have a good one. (and I actually mean that) p.s. sorry this is so OT, and Dronester, if you'd like to PM me instead of further derailing this thread, feel free to do so Edited by Apothecus, : punctuation Edited by Apothecus, : No reason given.
"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 38 by dronestar, posted 02-25-2010 4:04 PM | | dronestar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 43 by dronestar, posted 02-26-2010 9:29 AM | | Apothecus has replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.5
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
None of which, of course, were caused by Saddam...... Saddam would have caused little harm WITHOUT the ACTIVE support of the USA. It was American help which lifted him to position in Iraq. Even after America gave Saddam the weapons to gas the Kurds, even after world outcry over these atrocities, America turned around and gave him another billion dollars of military/training aid. Take a very long look at the HAPPY people shaking hands in this picture and note who they are: WordPress.com Or . . . you can continue to live in your delusion that Saddam acted entirely alone.
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.5
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Message 43 of 124 (548220)
02-26-2010 9:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 41 by Apothecus
02-25-2010 6:01 PM
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
And I'll be honest: he [Bush Jr.] wasn't that bad of a guy It seems you have adjusted your position regarding Bush Jr. Have a good day (sincerely).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by Apothecus, posted 02-25-2010 6:01 PM | | Apothecus has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by Apothecus, posted 03-01-2010 10:57 AM | | dronestar has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 44 of 124 (548241)
02-26-2010 10:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 42 by dronestar
02-26-2010 9:06 AM
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
Or . . . you can continue to live in your delusion that Saddam acted entirely alone. I never said he did. I get it. You are a disgruntled American. You are a hipster. We all get that. What I don't get though, is why you live in America. If it's so terrible, why don't you move somewhere else? Your disdain for U.S. ways is similar to that of the same people we are blaming for flying planes into the Twin Towers. Surely you would prefer to live somewhere else, yes?
"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws." -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 42 by dronestar, posted 02-26-2010 9:06 AM | | dronestar has replied |
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dronestar
Member Posts: 1417 From: usa Joined: 11-19-2008 Member Rating: 6.5
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Re: Yeah, truly sad
Your message #40 tried to deflect/marginalize the blame from American's illegal and immoral invasion by implying Saddam was ultimately responsible for all/most/equal of the deaths. When I called you on it (message #42), you didn't contest my facts. By not contesting any of my facts, you thus, indirectly admitted that America is indeed MOSTLY to blame (message #44). Finally, when faced with FULLY losing the argument, you shamelessly changed the topic to my place of residence.
I get it. You are a disgruntled American. You are a hipster. We all get that. Apparently, you don't get IT at all. Edited by dronester, : completed hooah quote
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by hooah212002, posted 02-26-2010 10:57 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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