On patriotism

Watching the Olympics and seeing the various gold medal winners sing their various national anthems, the thought of patriotism comes to mind. It's commonly regarded as a virtue, but why?It certainly has nothing to do with love of one's fellow man, for surely citizens of other countries are just as human as we are. In fact, the only benefit that I can see to patriotism goes entirely to the government. At least as it applies to the United States, this strikes me as perverse. The government exists to serve the best interests of its citizens, rather than the reverse. At least that's my conception of the matter.

---

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It's tribal.

People seem to innately resort to social behavior when a common goal exists. When you're on a pick-up game of basketball or football, you're likely to have pride in that team, even if you otherwise have nothing in common with them.If angry Martians were to attack earth, all nations would instantly be united and forget about their hatred for each other because they have a common goal. I'm not a huge fan of blind patriotism, like forcing kids to recite pledge of allegiances. It smacks of indoctrination. Let the children decide if they want to align themselves with the US or not.On the other hand, I root for the American teams in general because of our commonality. That doesn't mean I despise other teams or don't value their lives as humans.But all in all you and I seem to be on the same track. The only thing that I consider making me patriotic is the sense that I desire for the US to be a nation modeled after because it treats its citizens the best, has the most opportunities, etc, etc. As of late that hasn't been the case, so for me I look back to the virtue and foundation it began with as a template for how we should be now.That's kind of how I view it.

---

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

Indeed. The urge to identify with an "us" to pit against "them" is hardwired.I don't consider patriotism to be a virtue. I'm proud of my country when my country does something worth being proud of...and I identify with the US only because I vote here, and thus carry some small responsibility for what the US does.But I never get into "America is better than you" patriotism garbage. I'm the first to point out that other countries often handle individual problems better than America does, and nothing annoys me more than people who say "But that won't work in America," or who discount foreign solutions simply because they "aren't American."And as for the Olympics in particular...frankly, I couldn't care less. Never been much of a sports person, and as I bear no responsibility whatsoever for the physical prowess of another person, American or otherwise, I have no right or inclination to feel pride or disappointment when "our team" wins or loses. As my girlfriend has insisted that I watch the figure skaters with her, my enthusiasm has been more for the female skaters who I found more attractive and those that seemed to possess a greater amount of skill and grace than any sort of national identity.

.....see? there it is.....just when I've started leaning against what Hyro stands for, he says this.You betcha, dude.

---

- xongsmith, 5.7d

Well I think that patriotism in sport is the finest example of human tribalistic tendancies in the modern world. As a sports fan I can tell you that accepting your tribalistic instincts and running with them can be enormous, if emotionally exhausting, fun. The agony and ecstacy (mainly agony - which makes any ecstacy all the more orgasmic) of being an England supporter in the realms of cricket, football (AKA "soccer"), rugby, or whatever can be all but indescribable. National pride and even lunacy about such things should not be underestmated.But all too often these same tendencies get deployed in more serious and sinister arenas such as mindless advocacy of war or national retribution of some sort.We are tribal creatures and to deny this proclivity is foolish. But we are also creatures capable of morality and rationality and it is when mindless tribalism takes over from such considerations that it becomes a problem.

Beach Boys: Be True to Your SchoolA bowling team is a tribal us-v-them venue. So is the pride of competition between FedEx and UPS.We identify with our group. We are in. Them is out.Extrapolate this to the society and you have patriotism.It is not a bad thing. It is good for the soul, for the psyche. It is good to belong. We have a need to belong.When taken to extremes it is like too much chocolate ice cream: dangerous and fattening.How much is too much is a moral issue.The Olympics, imo, is not a too much venue. It is an outlet for national pride without bullets and bombs. It lets out the tension, cathartic. And if you pay attention to the human interest stories this pride is acknowledged and shared across national identities. This is good for the our growing global community.In an international situation I am an American. In a national situation I am either an Arizonian or a Texan depending upon my mood. Someday I may be acknowledged as a Terran. That would be a kick.Taken in moderation patriotism is a good thing.