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Author Topic:   WooHoo! More idiots running the gub'ment.
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 245 (548648)
02-28-2010 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
02-28-2010 8:44 PM


Re: Poor Babes
My big heart BLEEDS for helpless crybabies who's looser agenda hasn't enough public support to elect representatives who will do their bidding.
The American way has always been to get up the votes to determine policy. What do you expect? Some dictator of your thinking taking over and outlaw the republic?
So what if it's a religious conviction, so long as the majority goes along for whatever reason? We all have our reasons for voting the way we do. Athiests want their way and theists want theirs. Likely a lot of athiests in your state will vote with the religious one simply because it makes good sense to them.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 02-28-2010 8:44 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by hooah212002, posted 02-28-2010 9:10 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 9 by subbie, posted 02-28-2010 9:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 02-28-2010 10:00 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 19 by DrJones*, posted 02-28-2010 11:34 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 27 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-01-2010 5:53 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 35 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2010 9:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 245 (548669)
02-28-2010 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by hooah212002
02-28-2010 9:10 PM


Re: Poor Babes
hooah writes:
Would you feel the same if these decisions were based on satanistic beliefs?
If that were the case more power to them, so far as due process of the republic has not been violated. I would certainly work harder to have reps of a different mindset elected.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by hooah212002, posted 02-28-2010 9:10 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by hooah212002, posted 02-28-2010 11:22 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 20 by Coyote, posted 03-01-2010 12:10 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 245 (548671)
02-28-2010 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Taz
02-28-2010 10:00 PM


Re: Majority & Minority
Taz writes:
Ok, so now we know Buzsaw would have supported slavery, segregation, women's non-right to vote, etc. Good to know.
Like you, I've never had the opportunity to vote against slavery. Given the opportunity I would most assuredly vote against it. See Taz, just because I report what history attests to, that at one time or another nearly all nations have practiced slavery does not mean that I advocate it. How many times do I have to explain this to you?
Taz writes:
Buzsaw writes:
So what if it's a religious conviction, so long as the majority goes along for whatever reason?
Let me try to be as clear as I can on this.
The only way we can ensure that EVERYONE has the freedom to worship or not worship anyway they want is for the state to be completely neutral on the issue. This means that the elected officials must stay neutral at all times.
Of course not. The exercising of religion cannot be forbidden by law of Congress, but local elected officials can and do regulate relative to the wishes of their constituents. That has always been the way it works. Thus, for example some OT Levitical practices, some Muslim practices and some pagan practices would most likely be forbidden by law.
Taz writes:
I know you have a hard time sympathizing and empathizing for the minority.......
That's nonsense, Taz. I and other Christians have been on the side of the minority relative to many things on many occasions that an opposing majority has done. A good example is the last national elections and a lot of stuff that has happened since as a result.
Edited by Buzsaw, : fix quotes

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 02-28-2010 10:00 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Taz, posted 02-28-2010 11:13 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 21 by DC85, posted 03-01-2010 12:39 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 245 (548784)
03-01-2010 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Rahvin
03-01-2010 11:31 AM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
Rahvin writes:
To identify this as some sort of purge to create a religion-free society is grossly dishonest, as it paints atheism as the cause when any honest glance at history shows that atheism itslef was a means to an end in this case, while actual religious purges are themselves the sought after end.
Grossly dishonest? Why then did it become necessary to smuggle Bibles into the nation at the peril of imprisonment, torture and/or death?
Like China, they had a few state licensed show churches which were allowed only what the state mandated. The purpose of these were solely propaganda.
Edited by Buzsaw, : spelling

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Rahvin, posted 03-01-2010 11:31 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Taz, posted 03-01-2010 7:38 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 37 by Rahvin, posted 03-01-2010 9:16 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 245 (548787)
03-01-2010 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Taz
03-01-2010 7:38 PM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
Taz writes:
The Chinese communists have succeeded in creating a religion of their own. And like you, they don't like competitions. You know... sort of like how you people keep trying to get the schools to lead prayers to jesus christ, amen.
Again, you distort my position. I have not tried getting schools to lead prayers. I have advocated that local elected officials make a determination on that.
What you want Taz is for gub'ment to continue the establishment of athiestic secularism into the schools and ban any religious exercisement in the schools. You people want to eliminate the republic so as to get your athiestic and secularist agenda exclusive in schools. You want the kiddies to be totally indoctrinated into your stuff.
You people say that Stalin's only purpose in torture and holocaust was to eliminate anything opposing his agend. Well, guess what? That's exactly what you people want; anything that counters your agenda/ideology outlawed.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Taz, posted 03-01-2010 7:38 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2010 9:11 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 39 by Apothecus, posted 03-01-2010 9:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 41 by DC85, posted 03-01-2010 10:04 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 245 (548791)
03-01-2010 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Coyote
03-01-2010 12:10 AM


Re: Poor Babes
Coyote writes:
Buz, what you don't seem to realize is that no matter now many folks vote your way the constitution forbids you to impost a theocracy, or any of your pet religious beliefs, on the rest of us.
Check out the Lemon test. The actions of government must have a secular purpose.
The Constitution has to do with what Congress can and cannot do. I can't impost anything. (Imo, establish is a better word) It appears that you want that governments establish athiestic and secular humanist values upon the rest of us. That, in fact is what is happening via the majority established gub'ment. In that sense, More idiots are running the gub'ment,
Coyote writes:
We are products of the Enlightenment, and we've left the Dark Ages behind. (Of course, the shamans will sneak back in any crack, given half a chance.)
Shamans? Say what? Pray tell when the Shamans were any kind of a significant threat. The Dark Ages pertained particularly to the global influence of the ruthless popes and bishops of the RCC. Our founders had that very much in mind relative to how they worded the Constitution and Bill of Rights. They exercised religion in and out of government establishing nothing all the while. As new reps came, the majority became more secularist minded and the republic hummed along nicely and efficiently, adjusting to the will of the majority. You people should appreciate that. But no, you people won't be satisfied until your secularistic humanism is established firmly and permanenly, outlawing all others just as Mr. Stallin et al advocated.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Coyote, posted 03-01-2010 12:10 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2010 9:23 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 40 by Coyote, posted 03-01-2010 9:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 245 (548811)
03-01-2010 11:40 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Rahvin
03-01-2010 9:16 PM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
Rahvin writes:
Yes, Buz, grossly dishonest, although even Hyro's typical mindless middle habits pale in comparison to the complete red herring you're posting now.
I never said China was a "good place."
I simply said that it;s grossly dishonest for Hyro to say that:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for how many atrocities have been committed under the pretense of some religion, it pales in comparison to the numbers murdered by despots seeking a religion-free utopian society in the last 100 years alone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyro was being extremely inaccurate, both in saying that the atrocities committed by "atheist regimes" outnumber those committed in the name of religion, and by gross distortion in saying that the atrocities that were committed by those regimes were done to favor atheism or out of some atheistic mandate.
Your words, Buz, of course have nothing whatsoever to do with any of that.
Saying "Oh yeah?! China is guilty of human rights abuses, including the repression of the freedom of religion!" doesn't in any way change the facts I stated above. it does nothing to further Hyro's accuracies.
In short Buz, you posted a red herring.
And then:
What you want Taz is for gub'ment to continue the establishment of athiestic secularism into the schools and ban any religious exercisement in the schools. You people want to eliminate the republic so as to get your athiestic and secularist agenda exclusive in schools. You want the kiddies to be totally indoctrinated into your stuff.
BULLSHIT, you dihonest lying waste of bandwidth.
The law does not ban religious exercise in schools - it only bans school-led and publicly-funded religious exercise. that means kids CAN pray in school, but the teachers can't lead them in prayer. The two are very different. Your child can pray to Yahweh in school personally without fear of a teacher leading your child in a prayer to Allah or Visnu or Quetzalcoatl or being told that Yahweh does not exist.
Public schools do not in any way say that God(s) does not exist. Public schools are required to simply say nothing about religion, so that (what a concept) parents and the children themselves can decide what religious beliefs they should or should not have, rather than those beliefs being dictated or even suggested by the state.
We've told you this so many times, Buz, that I'm straight-up calling you a liar. You are bearing false witness. You are making a false statement that you know to be false.
Grossly dishonest? Why then did it become necessary to smuggle Bibles into the nation at the peril of imprisonment, torture and/or death?Like China, they had a few state licensed show churches which were allowed only what the state mandated. The purpose of these were solely propaganda.
Yes, Buz, grossly dishonest, although even Hyro's typical mindless middle habits pale in comparison to the complete red herring you're posting now.
I never said China was a "good place."
I simply said that it;s grossly dishonest for Hyro to say that:
quote:
As for how many atrocities have been committed under the pretense of some religion, it pales in comparison to the numbers murdered by despots seeking a religion-free utopian society in the last 100 years alone.
Hyro was being extremely inaccurate, both in saying that the atrocities committed by "atheist regimes" outnumber those committed in the name of religion, and by gross distortion in saying that the atrocities that were committed by those regimes were done to favor atheism or out of some atheistic mandate.
Your words, Buz, of course have nothing whatsoever to do with any of that.
Saying "Oh yeah?! China is guilty of human rights abuses, including the repression of the freedom of religion!" doesn't in any way change the facts I stated above. it does nothing to further Hyro's accuracies.
In short Buz, you posted a red herring.
And then:
What you want Taz is for gub'ment to continue the establishment of athiestic secularism into the schools and ban any religious exercisement in the schools. You people want to eliminate the republic so as to get your athiestic and secularist agenda exclusive in schools. You want the kiddies to be totally indoctrinated into your stuff.
BULLSHIT, you dihonest lying waste of bandwidth.
The law does not ban religious exercise in schools - it only bans school-led and publicly-funded religious exercise. that means kids CAN pray in school, but the teachers can't lead them in prayer. The two are very different. Your child can pray to Yahweh in school personally without fear of a teacher leading your child in a prayer to Allah or Visnu or Quetzalcoatl or being told that Yahweh does not exist.
Public schools do not in any way say that God(s) does not exist. Public schools are required to simply say nothing about religion, so that (what a concept) parents and the children themselves can decide what religious beliefs they should or should not have, rather than those beliefs being dictated or even suggested by the state.
We've told you this so many times, Buz, that I'm straight-up calling you a liar. You are bearing false witness. You are making a false statement that you know to be false.
No red herring at all. Hyro was grossly accurate in stating that many more have been killed by despots seeking a religion free utopia. I repeat; if he was grossly inaccurate, why should prison, torture and death be the penalty for smuggling Bibles into despotic nations of the Communist block nations of the last century. I'll tell you why. Hyro was right on. It was because these despots wanted a religion free utopia. Over a hundred million (largly Christians) were slaughtered by their own governments last century. Pray tell, what century topped that for religious persecution and slaughter of non-believers?
Now we'll talk about your red herring, Rahvin. My point was that the athiestic/secular humanist agenda/ideiology is mandated in public school teaching while religious agena/ideology is not allowed taught. No, they don't deny religion perse. They simply deny the teaching of anything religious such as the Biblical record, etc. It's all got to be secularist. This was not the case in over a century of our republic, until the sheeple elected reps who became restrictive as to what was taught. That's fine. It's a republic. It's just that you crybabies who are getting pretty much your way incessantly want more than what the elected reps have given you. As soon as some state or county loosens up an intsy tad on religion, you people screem and holler like spoiled brats who don't always get their way.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Rahvin, posted 03-01-2010 9:16 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by DrJones*, posted 03-01-2010 11:47 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 45 by Taz, posted 03-01-2010 11:51 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 46 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-01-2010 11:57 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 47 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2010 11:57 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 49 by bluescat48, posted 03-02-2010 12:00 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 245 (548818)
03-01-2010 11:57 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by DC85
03-01-2010 10:04 PM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
DC85 writes:
We Support a secular position
No one is trying to ban children or teachers from praying in school HOWEVER The teacher who is a government employee is NOT to lead the prayer. why is that such an issue for you?
Because just as the elected reps support a secular position, elected reps should be equally allowed to support a religious position without you people crying foul.
atheistic and secular is an oxymoron. Most atheists support a secular position however. A secular System protects everyone's freedom
No it doesn't. It denys religious people the freedom to exercise religion relative to whatever extent the elected reps decide upon.
Wow you're undereducated... Holocaust was Christian doing not Communist or atheist
Mmm, let me educate you up on holocaust, DC. A holocaust, relative to human cause is any excessive slaughter. I did not capitalize the word in the context that I used it. In reference to the Nazi Holocaust, it could be a proper name worthy of caps. Savvy?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by DC85, posted 03-01-2010 10:04 PM DC85 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Coyote, posted 03-02-2010 12:05 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 53 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-02-2010 12:22 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 62 by subbie, posted 03-02-2010 12:49 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 245 (548822)
03-02-2010 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Dr Adequate
03-01-2010 11:57 PM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
Dr Adequate writes:
Well, this certainly puts a few things into perspective.
Up until now, for example, I had always thought that those people who complain about President Obama and the Democratic-controlled Senate and House were citizens urging democratic change by exercise of their inalienable right to freedom of speech. However, from now on I shall be guided by you, and think of them as "crybabies who incessantly want more than the elected reps have given them" and "spoiled brats who whine and holler". You have given me a valuable insight into the nature of democracy, and for that, sir, I thank you.
Yah, Doc, we're hollering, loud and clear, mostly because of all of those unelected shadowy czars by which the Obama Administration is clandestanly bankrupting the nation, makeing us dependent upon our enemies for energy and undermining the republic for which we have stood these past centuries so as to remake it into a looser socialist state somewhat like his buddy Soros envisions.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-01-2010 11:57 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by DrJones*, posted 03-02-2010 12:17 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 54 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-02-2010 12:24 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 59 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-02-2010 12:39 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 245 (548826)
03-02-2010 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Coyote
03-02-2010 12:05 AM


Re: A secular system...
Coyote writes:
A secular system denies you the ability to force others to kowtow to your religious beliefs.
This is where the whole ID thing (along with creationism and creation "science" before it) enters the picture. Creation "science" and ID were cooked up in a dishonest attempt to sneak creationism back into the schools after it had been removed by the courts.
This was an attempt by creationists to force their religious beliefs on others. That has rightly been denied by the courts.
But Coyote, what you're denying is how a republic works. No matter what the elected reps implement, someone's ox is going to be gored. No system is perfect for everyone. If folks think they're being unduly forced into anything that's what the courts are for and that's good reason for them to work to have someonel else elected who will bless their wishes.
Some of us would like some balance in the classroom so as to teach the positives and negatives of all beliefs. That's not happening and again, that's fine with me so long as that's what the majority wants. I'm not whining about that. I simply need to convince more sheeple to vote for my agenda.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Coyote, posted 03-02-2010 12:05 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by DrJones*, posted 03-02-2010 12:34 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 58 by Coyote, posted 03-02-2010 12:39 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 66 by DC85, posted 03-02-2010 12:54 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 245 (548828)
03-02-2010 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by ZenMonkey
03-02-2010 12:22 AM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
Zen Monkey writes:
making even a homosexual more likely to get elected. (And we know how likely that is.
Zen, can you spell Barney Frank, who's been an elected official for how long? There's others. Hey, if a radical Obama can get elected, anybody but anybody can get elected who can organize up to the extent that his political machine did and wave off as many lies as he has.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by ZenMonkey, posted 03-02-2010 12:22 AM ZenMonkey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Theodoric, posted 03-02-2010 12:49 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 245 (548832)
03-02-2010 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by bluescat48
03-02-2010 12:00 AM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
Bluescat writes:
The point is why should Muslems, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus etc. be forces to study Christian ideals? Why should Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus etc be forces to study Muslem Ideals? Why should Muslems, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus etc be forced to study Jewish ideals? The point is that by being secular, it doesn't put any one religion above the others and allows for religious freedom.
.......And if the majority are of a relatively common persuasion as was the case in the first half of our republic why should mum & dad's youngun be forced to be indoctrinated into secular humanist stuff and denied what has worked to produce the greatest nation on the planet up until recently when we are sliding into decline?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by bluescat48, posted 03-02-2010 12:00 AM bluescat48 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Theodoric, posted 03-02-2010 12:52 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 245 (548833)
03-02-2010 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Coyote
03-02-2010 12:39 AM


Re: Constitutional Republic...
Coyote writes:
Buz, we live in a constitutional republic, not a democracy.
I'm well aware of that, Coyote. That's why I've alluded to the people's elected reps.
ABE: The Constitution does not forbid the exercise of religion in government facilities.
Edited by Buzsaw, : As noted. & update message title.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Coyote, posted 03-02-2010 12:39 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by subbie, posted 03-02-2010 12:53 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 68 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-02-2010 1:01 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 245 (548840)
03-02-2010 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Theodoric
03-02-2010 12:52 AM


Re: Communist Religious Persecution
Theodoric writes:
So what do you think of schools having islamic or buddhist prayers. How about if teachers lead the kids in hindu devotiosn? Is that ok?
If you go back and read me, Theodoric, I've already adressed that question.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Theodoric, posted 03-02-2010 12:52 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Theodoric, posted 03-02-2010 1:01 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 71 of 245 (548847)
03-02-2010 1:12 AM


Re: What Use To Be
One thing this thread has demonstrated is how America has changed in the last 60 years. There was a day when the Buz statements here would be understood and accepted by the majority.
I pitty ye yunguns. Brace youselves for what's coming. I pray for you all. It's notagona be pretty for America, nor for the planet, for that matter due to global apostacy in general. The end times are upon the planet as Jesus readies himself for the soon to come 2nd advent. The 2000 millennium will become the messianic millennium. God/Jehovah said it so I can guarrantee it. Call me a liar now, but I shall be vindicated in the not too distant by and by.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by subbie, posted 03-02-2010 1:18 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 73 by Coyote, posted 03-02-2010 1:22 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 74 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-02-2010 1:24 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 79 by Huntard, posted 03-02-2010 3:57 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 112 by DC85, posted 03-02-2010 3:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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