Did God say it, or did you say it?

But in every instance, using context, you can see what each "day" refers to time wise. Notice it stats "the day", not "a day" when refering to long periods of time.Since science has overwhelming evidence the earth was not created in 6 days, its only quite recent that Genesis refers to long periods of time.Do you really think "first day", "second day", "evening and morning" does not refer to a description of a 24 hour period? In fact, its due to Genesis that the Jews based their day starting at evening.Can you give an example where "a day" refers to more than 24 hours?

hERICtic writes:
Can you give an example where "a day" refers to more than 24 hours? You're ignoring the context. First, if you really want to go with a day=1,000 years, then it makes the earth 6,000 years old. Obviously incorrect. The main point though, is that Peter is trying to show god is above time. It has nothing with an actual age of a day.There isnt a single instance in the Bible, that "a day" is anything but 24 hours. Also, the context of Genesis makes it quite clear its 24 hours, evening/morning. Of course, it it is long periods of time, then you have evening (darkness) for nearly a billion years, followed by morning (light) for nearly a billion years, then again for five more "days'. Doesnt really make much sense, does it.If science came to the conclusion tomorrow that the earth was created in six days, would you stand behind your belief that Genesis obviously states long periods of time and not six actual days?Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

Peg,I asked if science determined that the earth was created in 6 days, would you still say the Bible really means long periods of time?hERICtic writes:
There isnt a single instance in the Bible, that "a day" is anything but 24 hours. I bet you cannot even show me three! I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here. First, now you're admitting its 12 hours, instead of long periods of time? Second, do you really think that the Hebrews only thought a day was 12 hours long instead of 24? It refers to both. Daylight, as a day. Or the day plus evening.

Flyer75 writes:
So you've spent this whole time telling all of us that YOM can mean other periods of time other then a literal day, which I didn't disagree with you on, yet you now want to claim without any proof that with CERTAINTY it means millions of years????? When it CAN mean a literal day also? Peg, I really cannot believe you just stated this as evidence. We know from SCIENCE the above. The authors did not. They had no concept of how long coal takes to form.Again, the only reason its an "age" now, is bc science has determined the age of the earth, which contradicts scripture. Do you really think 200+ years ago most Christians believed that Genesis states it was billions of years?How much more clear can evening, morning, first day. Evening, morning second day?Each time evening/morning is used in scripture, it refers to a 24 hour day. Everytime a number and day are used together it refers to a 24 hour day.Also, olam or qedem are Hebrew words used to show long periods of time.

hERICtic writes:
Again, the only reason its an "age" now, is bc science has determined the age of the earth, which contradicts scripture. It has everything to do with science. Until science determined the age of the earth, it was generally accepted that Genesis states 6-24 your days. Why? Bc thats what it stated. That is what is implied.Yes, YOM is used throughout scripture and in EVERY instance evening/morning is used it refers to a 24 hour day. In EVERY instance a number precedes YOM, it refers to 24 hours.There are words for long periods of time in Hebrew. Again, the ONLY reason you believe it to be long periods of time is due to what science has discovered. I have no doubt you would not carry this belief 200+ years ago. If tomorrow, scientists claimed they were wrong and the earth was created in 6 days, you would say without hesitation how amazing the Bible is! How Genesis clearly states this.hERICtic writes:
Do you really think 200+ years ago most Christians believed that Genesis states it was billions of years? You didnt answer the question.hERICtic writes:
How much more clear can evening, morning, first day. Evening, morning second day?Each time evening/morning is used in scripture, it refers to a 24 hour day. Everytime a number and day are used together it refers to a 24 hour day. You can be direct, no problem at all. But to get to the point, its not rubbish, bc you can easily do the homework on that one. EVERY time evening/morning is used, it refers to a 24 hour day. I didnt say it means 24 hours per se, but that it means a day, which consists of 24 hours.Exodus also states the earth was created in 6 days.

Peg, you are missing the point.In EVERY instance in scripture a number followed by YOM refers to a 24 hour period.In EVERY instance in scripture, when evening and morning are used, it refers to a 24 hour period.Jesus also stated a day has 12 hours. But obviously, Jesus knew it also included darkness before the next day. 24 hours.Even Exodus states there was a six day creation.There are words in Hebrew that denote long periods of time.Even Jesus states its 6 days!"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female" (Mark 10:6).You're claiming man was created at the end of creation, the sixth day, billions of years later! Your belief contradicts what Jesus is claiming. According to Genesis, man was created at the end of creation.God rested on the seventh day. Do you believe this seventh day was also an epoch? Adam lived past this day, just how old was he then? Or do you think the seventh day is back to a 24 hour period?Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

hERICtic writes:
In EVERY instance in scripture a number followed by YOM refers to a 24 hour period.In EVERY instance in scripture, when evening and morning are used, it refers to a 24 hour period. 2 Chronicles 13:11
Every morning and evening they present burnt offerings and fragrant incense to the LORD. They set out the bread on the ceremonially clean table and light the lamps on the gold lampstand every evening. We are observing the requirements of the LORD our God. But you have forsaken him.
2 Chronicles 13:10-12 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 13 (Whole Chapter)
2 Chronicles 31:3
The king contributed from his own possessions for the morning and evening burnt offerings and for the burnt offerings on the Sabbaths, New Moons and appointed feasts as written in the Law of the LORD.
2 Chronicles 31:2-4 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 31 (Whole Chapter)
Ezra 3:3
Despite their fear of the peoples around them, they built the altar on its foundation and sacrificed burnt offerings on it to the LORD, both the morning and evening sacrifices.
Ezra 3:2-4 (in Context) Ezra 3 (Whole Chapter)
Esther 2:14
In the evening she would go there and in the morning return to another part of the harem to the care of Shaashgaz, the king's eunuch who was in charge of the concubines. She would not return to the king unless he was pleased with her and summoned her by name.
Esther 2:13-15 (in Context) Esther 2 (Whole Chapter)
Psalm 55:17
Evening, morning and noon I cry out in distress, and he hears my voice.
Psalm 55:16-18 (in Context) Psalm 55 (Whole Chapter)Here are some examples with a number and a day mentioned:Exodus 16:1
[ Manna and Quail ] The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.
Exodus 16:1-3 (in Context) Exodus 16 (Whole Chapter)
Exodus 40:17
So the tabernacle was set up on the first day of the first month in the second year.
Exodus 40:16-18 (in Context) Exodus 40 (Whole Chapter)
Numbers 1:1
[ The Census ] The LORD spoke to Moses in the Tent of Meeting in the Desert of Sinai on the first day of the second month of the second year after the Israelites came out of Egypt. He said:
Numbers 1:1-3 (in Context) Numbers 1 (Whole Chapter)
Numbers 1:18
and they called the whole community together on the first day of the second month. The people indicated their ancestry by their clans and families, and the men twenty years old or more were listed by name, one by one,
Numbers 1:17-19 (in Context) Numbers 1 (Whole Chapter)
Numbers 7:18
On the second day Nethanel son of Zuar, the leader of Issachar, brought his offering.
Numbers 7:17-19 (in Context) Numbers 7 (Whole Chapter)
Numbers 9:11
They are to celebrate it on the fourteenth day of the second month at twilight. They are to eat the lamb, together with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
Numbers 9:10-12 (in Context) Numbers 9 (Whole Chapter)
Numbers 10:11
[ The Israelites Leave Sinai ] On the twentieth day of the second month of the second year, the cloud lifted from above the tabernacle of the Testimony.
Numbers 10:10-12 (in Context) Numbers 10 (Whole Chapter)The above scripture I did not pick and choose. They're one after another, chapter by chapter. I just moved my mouse to one, copy and pasted. There are plenty more.My challenge back to you: Find me an instance in scripture where evening/morning means long periods of time. Find me scripture where a number is given with a day that means long periods of time.hERICtic writes:
Jesus also stated a day has 12 hours. But obviously, Jesus knew it also included darkness before the next day. 24 hours. Peg, we do the same today. You wake up, you look outside, "Wow, its a nice day". Evening comes, you refer to it as "night". Yet its 24 hours.Matthew 16:21
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.So did Jesus mean only three-12 daylight hours? Or are evening hours also involved? Do you think Jesus didnt know a day consists of an evening and morning?hERICtic writes:
God rested on the seventh day. Do you believe this seventh day was also an epoch? Adam lived past this day, just how old was he then? Or do you think the seventh day is back to a 24 hour period? Which is my point. Either the seventh day is 24 hours, which shows the previous 6 were 24 hours, or god rested on the 7th day which is still going. In either case, his creation stopped on the sixth day.This contradicts the words of Jesus:"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female" (Mark 10:6).According to Genesis, man was created on the sixth day of six days. This would be the END of creation. If creation started billions of years ago as per your version of Genesis, and day six is billions of years later....how can that be the beginning of creation???It makes perfect sense if the author believed the earth was only a few days old. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic

hERICtic writes:
2 Chronicles 13:11
Every morning and evening they present burnt offerings and fragrant incense to the LORD. They set out the bread on the ceremonially clean table and light the lamps on the gold lampstand every evening. We are observing the requirements of the LORD our God. But you have forsaken him. Unless I misspoke, I stated that any time evening and morning are used, it refers to a day was we know it. I'm not sure how your "12" hour reference helps your case whatsover. Its even less time than what I claim. Its would still be 6 increments of daylight as per Genesis when the world was created. But as I have shown you, "day" can mean daylight or 24 hours. Only to you. You need it to be. The point is EVERY time evening and morning are mentioned, it refers to a day as we know it.hERICtic writes:
My challenge back to you: Find me an instance in scripture where evening/morning means long periods of time. Find me scripture where a number is given with a day that means long periods of time. Not one of those addresses the issue. Not one. When EVENING and MORNING are used, it refers to a day, not a long period of time. When a number is used before YOM, it always refers to a 24 hour day. Heck, your verse from Genesis one clearly shows its not a long period of time. Again, when a number is used BEFORE YOM, it refers to a 24 hour day.hERICtic writes:
Which is my point. Either the seventh day is 24 hours, which shows the previous 6 were 24 hours, or god rested on the 7th day which is still going. In either case, his creation stopped on the sixth day. No Peg, you're missing the point again. Its one of two things. First, if it refers to a 24 hour period, you have a problem.If its a 24 hour day, then obviously, the previous six would be six 24 hour days also.If its a long period of time, it still states on the seventh day creation stopped.Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day. Which is the LAST day of creation.If the days were billions of years, then Adam and Eve were created at the END of creation. Scripture states the beginning.hERICtic writes:
In either case, his creation stopped on the sixth day.This contradicts the words of Jesus:"But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female" (Mark 10:6).According to Genesis, man was created on be the END of creation. If creation started billions the sixth day of six days. This wouldof years ago as per your version of Genesis, and day six is billions of years later....how can that be the beginning of creation??? Its a moot point. Regardless of when on the creation day Adam was created, it still the END of the creation process, not the beginning. Creation obviously started 10+ billion of years earlier! No matter how you try to twist this, its the end of the creation process, not the beginning. Here is the kicker though.Adam lived into the seventh day. Adam lived close to a thousand (960?), so he could ONLY be created at the very end of the sixth day. Get it? Of the 14 billion years, Adam was created at the last second!This contradicts scripture which states he was created at the beginning.Everything makes perfect sense, if the authors thoughts creation was six days not long periods of time. If the author believed thousands of days have passed then it makes perfect sense to state Adam was created in the beginning. PD, I apologize if both Peg and I should not have continued. You told DA he was off topic, so I didnt respond. But you joined in with Peg, so I am under the assumption its ok to further along this very debate. I also agree I think its ON topic. Edited by AdminPD, : Off Topic

Peg, would you like to further this discussion here: Define literal vs non-literal?Not sure how you have all this time, you're all over the place! If you wish to continue, let me know. Copy and paste your last post I guess and we'll go from there.