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Rahvin Member Posts: 4039 Joined: Member Rating: 8.2 |
Hi Dr,
God loves you. Repent or perish. Just so you know, that particular tactic never works on someone who doesn't already subscribe to your theology. In other words, it might work on a lapsed Christian, or someone of a different denomination, but you'll never ever convince a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an Atheist, or anyone else that you're spreading "good news" with threats of Hell...whether you believe it to be true or not. In fact, it's far more likely to cause someone to immediately reject what you're saying...often it can provoke such an emotional reaction that it will color all future interactions with you. Think about how you'd react to a Muslim who tells you that you must abandon Christ and worship Allah or face eternal torment in the same "do what I say or die" manner you've just used. You've effectively given those you've experienced friction with already even more reason to dislike you and react to your every word with hostility.
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Pauline Member (Idle past 3757 days) Posts: 283 Joined:
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...but you'll never ever convince a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an Atheist, or anyone else that you're spreading "good news" with threats of Hell...whether you believe it to be true or not. So, how can "good" news be spread without mentioning the "bad" element that the "good" eradicates?
Just so you know, that particular tactic never works on someone who doesn't already subscribe to your theology. 1. This isn't a tactic, Rahvin. Its truth. 2. Perhaps you are forgetting that there considerable many here that once believed, like yourself. It shouldn't really be more cumbersome to hear what they've already heard AND despised to the fullest extent. When you guys have reached your mental saturation point, you become de-sensitized to truth. IOW, I feel like nothing that I say can make you hate God more. You see? But you know, I believe God's grace is far more profound than our folly.
You've effectively given those you've experienced friction with already even more reason to dislike you and react to your every word with hostility. My dear Rahvin, they can't dislike me more. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8
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Hey Doc,
So, define a true christian in your own words, will you hooah? Why should hooah be able to define a true Christian? For that matter why should you? There are many versions of Christianity. Who decides which is the right one? You? Me? The Pope? Fred Phelps? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if there is any validity to Christianity, then it's rather up to God to decide which of the splinter-faiths founded in his name are valid and which aren't (that's assuming that he even cares). Now since none of us happen to be God, that leaves us rather stumped when it comes to deciding who's got that golden ticket. There is another reason why I dislike the "Real Christian" argument; it is extremely reminiscent of an argument which is used to excuse murder. I'll explain. Muslims are not supposed to kill other Muslims. Most Muslims take this stricture pretty seriously. This poses an obvious problem for those scumbags who might like to commit terrorist atrocities, atrocities that might claim Muslim lives. So how do they get around this? It's simple; those people are not real Muslims. They don't happen to subscribe to the exact same subset of Islam as the terrorists, so they, by definition, can't be real Muslims. So it's okay to kill them. It makes perfect sense; if you're completely cracked. It also embraces the exact same logical fallacy as you are employing, the No True Scotsman. I hope you can appreciate why I find such arguments illogical and deeply distasteful.
Whoever accused me of that fallacy has a much bigger problem than I do, believe it or not. I'm going to heaven when I die, and he..... That would be me. Implicit threats of damnation eh? Stay classy Doc. Of course, until that blessed day that I receive my richly deserved divine punishment, you are still left with a glaring fallacy as an argument. Care to defend it? Or withdraw it? Or are you just going to resort to implicit threats as a substitute for logic?
--Yeah, I sincerely apologize OP. I feel guilty for stealing the conversation. Well let's see. Ichi's OP went "Wah! You guys are mean! Wah!" (I'm paraphrasing a little). I think your contribution here has been pretty much on topic myself. Mutate and Survive
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
Ahh, don't you wish it were that simple, hooah? It is that simple. Like I said, it is not i who hs the "no true scotsman fallacy" problem.
No wonder you get all your facts about Christianity wrong. Please, point out one thing I have stated about christianity that is factually wrong, rather than wrong in your opinion. You do know the difference, yes? Every single one of you christians has a different set of beliefs, yet you all live your lives according to the same damn book.
Hey...you're cheating. If you're gonna talk about religious scriptures, then say bhagavad gita......hindus are people who adhere to its teachings, not pieces of literature. Thanks.
OF course you would, darling. For you don't even understand what religion is. Ah right, so not only does your no true scotsman fallacy apply to christianity, now it extends to religion as a whole.
What should I say to someone who thinks God doesn't exist because He's not physically observed?....other than you have serious mental problems. I believe YOU have the mental problems for believing in fairy tales.
Should I think that you don't understand faith, or that you are mentally derailed? You are welcome to any opinion of me you like. However, how christ like is it for you to call one "mentally de-railed"? "Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan "On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair
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Pauline Member (Idle past 3757 days) Posts: 283 Joined:
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GM writes: Why should hooah be able to define a true Christian? For that matter why should you? There are many versions of Christianity. Who decides which is the right one? You? Me? The Pope? Fred Phelps? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that if there is any validity to Christianity, then it's rather up to God to decide which of the splinter-faiths founded in his name are valid and which aren't (that's assuming that he even cares). Now since none of us happen to be God, that leaves us rather stumped when it comes to deciding who's got that golden ticket. I would not have asked hooah to define a true Christian had I myself not been able to. Truth is, Granny M, that no human need ever come with a original definition because the Bible defines a true Christian. When I asked hooah, I was wanting to know whether or not he had the Biblical one.
That would be me. Implicit threats of damnation eh? Stay classy Doc. Of course, until that blessed day that I receive my richly deserved divine punishment, you are still left with a glaring fallacy as an argument. Care to defend it? Or withdraw it? Or are you just going to resort to implicit threats as a substitute for logic? That day is anything but blessed, GM.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Is that it? Oh.
I would not have asked hooah to define a true Christian had I myself not been able to. Truth is, Granny M, that no human need ever come with a original definition because the Bible defines a true Christian. Chapter and verse please. I'm not just going to take your word for it you know.
That day is anything but blessed, GM. But that won't stop you from gloating over it and using the threat of damnation in a pathetically doomed attempt to bully folks into agreeing with you. Like I said, stay classy. Mutate and Survive
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 823 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
When I asked hooah, I was wanting to know whether or not he had the Biblical one. 1: I don't believe shit in the bible.2: There are far, far too many interperetations of any given bible to say that it is a valid source of information regarding what it takes to be a true christian. If you all came to a conclusion on what it says, then we can talk. Until then, it is rote with disinformation as far as I am concerned. "Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan "On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair
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Pauline Member (Idle past 3757 days) Posts: 283 Joined:
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Chapter and verse please. I'm not just going to take your word for it you know. There is no one verse that encompasses everything there is to define in a true Christian. If you want to know the defintion, you've got to read the Bible with the intention of discovering it and assimilate what you read. But two verses readily come to mind on this specific occasion: 1. James 1:22. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 2. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Enough is enough. Its time for me to shake the dust off my feet and go to a different place... G'night. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given. Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Okay,
There is no one verse that encompasses everything there is to define in a true Christian. Indeed not.
If you want to know the defintion, you've got to read the Bible with the intention of discovering it and assimilate what you read. Don't be silly. Either there is a definition or there is not.
But two verses readily come to mind on this specific occasion: Can't help but notice that neither of those verses mention the word "Christian". Nor do they define anything much of anything. Certainly using the words of Jesus to define a Christian is absurd, since there were no Christians at that time. Pretty weak tea I'm afraid. Mutate and Survive
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Pauline writes:
It wasn't me. I have not rated that message.Oh, and thanks for the 1 on message 53, guys. I appreciate it. If I had rated it, then a 1 would be in consideration. That's a message that did not need to be posted. It doesn't contribute anything useful to the discussion. And that would be one of my criteria for a 1.
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 4532 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
Not that I bother at all with ratings - honestly, who could possibly care? - but since you were being such a whiner I went back and gave that post a 1 as well. You've now dropped from a 1.8 to a 1.7.
I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die. -John Lydon
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Pauline Member (Idle past 3757 days) Posts: 283 Joined: |
Even you dropped me to a -567, that wouldn't mean a thing to me.
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ZenMonkey Member (Idle past 4532 days) Posts: 428 From: Portland, OR USA Joined: |
Well then, stop whining if it means so little to you.
I have no time for lies and fantasy, and neither should you. Enjoy or die. -John Lydon
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Pauline Member (Idle past 3757 days) Posts: 283 Joined: |
Watch what you're saying.
I only mentioned something about the rating system. A lot of people just jumped in on that and totally lost control. If I replied to them, am I whining? I am as composed as I was at the beginning of the discussion.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4039 Joined: Member Rating: 8.2 |
1. This isn't a tactic, Rahvin. Its truth. It's what you believe to be the truth. I understand that you have a high degree of confidence in that belief. Convincing other people to believe the same is the trick. For that purpose, that particular statement is more off-putting than convincing.
2. Perhaps you are forgetting that there considerable many here that once believed, like yourself. It shouldn't really be more cumbersome to hear what they've already heard AND despised to the fullest extent. When you guys have reached your mental saturation point, you become de-sensitized to truth. IOW, I feel like nothing that I say can make you hate God more. You see? By and large, Dr, atheists do not hate god - that would be much like you hating leprechauns. I don't say that to offend - I'm trying to give you a point of reference. It's difficult to hate something you don't think exists. It's not a matter of desensitization - it's a matter of respect for other people, and simple manners. I don't know about you, but when someone threatens me with eternal torment, I consider that rather rude.
My dear Rahvin, they can't dislike me more. Indeed. But they could like you more. For all many of us disagree with Peg, I react much better to her posts than I do to those Buz makes, for example, even though they're both very capable of conveying their points, and that's largely due to their respective attitudes. So far I;ve been trying specifically to remain polite and nice with you, and in your responses to me you seem to have done the same. If you'd like to end the hostility and actually debate as per the purpose of this site, you may wish to demonstrate the Christian principles of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, and of turning the other cheek. It'll help keep the moderation staff sane, and lower the blood pressure of all those involved. Of course, that goes for them, as well.
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